Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Blayde: Stumbled on this Zero Punctuation quote, made me think of the article. Consider changing pagequote?

Yahtzee: You remember those two expansion packs that followed F.E.A.R. 1? Shut up! No you don't! They don't exist, and even if they did, Monolith didn't develop them so they don't count.

triassicranger: Perhaps we can put it in the Quotes page.

Removed this example:

Speaking of Unreal Tournament, I'm pretty sure Unreal Tournament 2004 is the second game in the franchise and the sequel to the original Unreal Tournament. Speaking of Unreal, I'd say it's about time a sequel was made for that as well.

... because it is already stated in Canon Discontinuity that Epic considered it non-canon. (If it's considered canon by the developers, only then can you personally discontinue it... Or Is It? Seriously, I'm confused.)

Eponymous Kid: When was Wind Waker removed from the Zelda timeline? There are a lot of Continuity Nods to it in Twilight Princess (most notably the presence of bokoblins)... I was under the impression that it took place literally milennia after Ocarina of Time, leaving lots of place in between (or before) for more games...

Charred Knight: Nintendo has stated that when Zelda sent Link back in time to live life as a child it created two different universes. Most Zelda games take place in the timeline where he lived life as a child. Windwaker's take place in a world where Link never had a childhood.

Eponymous Kid: Does that mean Twilight Princess is set in the same universe, or...? Because that really only excludes Majora's Mask.

Phartman: According to Nintendo's timeline, Twilight Princess comes after Majora's Mask. Wind Waker was never removed from canon, it was just given a separate continuity.

Rebochan: Pitched some natter from one the Apollo Justice entry:

This editor knew that already, but still decanonizes the game for its horrible character designs and relentlessly stupid writing. Was the Luke, I Am Your Father bit really necessary?

Trigger Loaded: Followed suit with the preceding line:

Those people almost certainly never played the game, since you find out later on that Phoenix had no idea that evidence was fake, and one of the goals of the game's final case is to prove it and clear his name. Not to mention that you can play as him anyway.

Also natter, and many people know that was the case, and still didn't like it, especially considering the situation, and everything around it. (I'm sure there's a writeup in the Just Bugs Me page...)

Charred Knight: About Smash brothers Who gives a shit about what accent they use, if you declare discontinuity if you don't like an accent, I suggest that you take a look at what constitutes a good game. The problem is not with the game its with you. Dis Continuity should be something so stupid that it ruins a large part of the character, and series. An accent does not equal the Clone Saga or Hal Jordan going insane.

Nirual: I agree. Besides, Smash Bros isn't even part of the canon of ANY game. It's a crossover. And people tend to complain about any change in voiceacting, even though the VA's in the Star Fox series only got better over time. I'll remove that entry.

Caswin: What "severe changes" to the universe did Quest For Glory V make? The gameplay engine was different, to be sure - and not necessarily for the better - but it brought closure to the series without any retconning (and actually quite a bit of continuity) that I can remember.

Roland: Charred Knight, if somebody wants to declare it Dis Continuity, that's their right. It may be silly, but it's not worth getting this upset about.

Charred Knight: Discontinuity should not be about stuff that midly annoyed you. How the hell is an accent ruining Star Fox? To give you an example, in One More Day Peter Parker sacrifices his marriage and makes a deal with the Devil to save his Aunt's life just because Joe Quesada can't live with changes made to comics. Tell me how accents equate to that?

djkates: Purely out of curiosity, why are Mega Man 6 and later dis-continued? Other than the bad voice acting in 8, as far as I could tell, they were pretty good games, in story and gameplay. I can easily see dis-continuing the PC-only Mega Man games (they were pretty bad), and putting the Game Boy ones in an Alternate Continuity, just can't see why 6 through 8 are out.

Rebochan: Okay, I definitely know the types that like to chuck out Final Fantasy X-2, but how in the world is it supposed to be a prequel to FFVII? I freaking hate ''Final Fantasy'' fans.

Charred Knight: Shinra's descendants left Spira, and landed on Gaea(the planet from FFVII), and when regular humanity split off from the Ancients, his descendants founded Shinra Energy Corporation. The staff has stated that FFX-2 happens one thousand years before FFVII, and is on another planet in the Solar System. http://faqs.ign.com/articles/702/702971p1.html

Gloating Swine: If you check the article you linked again, it says that humans left Spira 1000 years after the events of FFX-2 and arrived on Planet, and in FFVII it's stated that Humans and Cetra lived side by side on Planet at least at the time Jenova arose, which is 2000 years before the events of FFVII (Humans having arrived on Planet from elsewhere was already part of FFVII's premise). So there's at least 3000 years between the two games. Word of God is that they're connected, but the connection is so remote as to be functionally irrelevant.

Charred Knight: I just skimmed it when I brought it up only remembering that Gamefaqs had a translation of the connection. Really the only thing it brings up is that FFX-2, and FFVII happen in the same universe, and most likely in the same general area of the galaxy (but not in the same Solar System)

Bob: Cutting this from the Final Fantasy:

Some would go as far as denying any game was made after the seventh, some as far as after the sixth.

Because, other than Final Fantasy X-2 and the above discussed Final Fantasy X/Final Fantasy VII connection, Final Fantasy has no direct continuity. Thus the proposed Dis Continuity would go under Real Life Dis Continuity, which was mercifully put down recently.

Andrew Leprich: And, before that, I removed the line Eight and Nine are also particularly iffy. Ten? Eh. This troper would just rather forget ignominable wanker Tidus and he'd be fine with it because it seems like a unwarranted snark towards a popular game and because it seems to violate the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment.

Bob: Yeah, I saw that in the page history. I just read through some of the other Dis Continuity pages and ,quite frankly, it seems like a lot of people has missed the point of this. You can't declare Dis Continuity on an Alternate Continuity because it's never in canon in the first place. That was firmly established before the page was split. I'll make a huge cleanup later when it's not past 1 AM in my particular timezone.

Tanto: You seem to be overlooking that the Dis Continuity pages have degenerated into "whine about shit I don't like" and that there's no help for it. That's why I'm always wary of these subjective tropes, especially the negative ones — give people even the tiniest window to bitch, and they will.

Trying to police these pages is, IMO, a complete waste of time, so don't waste yours.

Andrew Leprich: I'd have to agree. There are some legitimate examples of discontinuity but there's no way to prevent the inevitable decay to Complaining About Shows You Dont Like (or games, et. al).

Bob: You guys are probably right. I wash my hands off this this issue.

Charred Knight: Got rid of the Natter from Star Control, and lets be serious if you where shocked that the Orz was a Cosmic Horror your not paying attention. Also got rid of an example that was either written by a jerk or a guy who was drunk.

Nul Nul: Decided to pull my own entry, after reading about the subjective Dis Continuity issues:

The Xbox 360 launch title, Zero, is a decent little shooter, but it's most definitely not a prequel to the Nintendo 64 game Perfect Dark, no matter what the logo or the blurb on the back of the game's case says.

Charred Knight: Sacred Stones is a standalone game, and not attached to any other game in the series and the nain complaint is with the easier gameplay, and nothing to do with storyline issues which is what this topic is.

Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones is not a Fire Emblem game. Those games are challenging and do not allow the player to grind characters in safe, constantly respawning dungeons.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: Cut this and put it here. Alternate Continuity is different than Dis Continuity. Dis Continuity is "it didn't really happen"; Alternate Continuity is, "it happened, but it's different because it's in an Alternate Universe."

The Legend Of Zelda: The Wind Waker is an odd case, in that it wasn't removed from the main continuity of the plot, but rather moved to an Alternate Continuity; one of two that sprang from the ending of Ocarina of Time. It wasn't due to any real faults with the game; merely that Nintendo understood that most fans didn't really want every new sequel to take place in a flooded Hyrule.

Phartman: The Alternate Continuity article might not have existed when I put that in, but no biggie.

Charred Knight: Deleted it and put it here since the third game is generally liked, Murray is well liked, and it seems that the person doesn't even remember what he or she is talking about.

Sorry, but no. Monkey Island 2 was the last game of the franchise. They didn't redraw Guybrush to be some kind of tall white-and-black stick. Elaine and Guybrush get married, but not that way. LeChuck doesn't become a zombie for no good reason. The Mind Screw finale of Monkey Island 2 wasn't largely handwaved away. No ship combat minigame. No "Marco Pollo" segment. No pirate school. And there's no Murray. For the love of God there's no Murray in Monkey Island.
- Yes, there is. And he's brilliant.
- Hey, I liked tall white-and-black stick Guybrush...
- Wait a minute, Le Chuck turned into a zombie in Monkey Island 2. Are you sure you even know which games you like?

Bob: Cuts.

Cuts and the reasoning behind them

MGS 2 never existed. And if it did, it certainly would not have had the main character appear to die in the first act, it would not have replaced him with a whiny pretty boy with relationship issues who would have had to take about fifty levels in badass to even be considered a Scrappy, it would not have essentially done a remix of the plot of MGS 1, and it certainly would not have turned out to have all been a simulation. Though the quote up top would have been a neat quote.
This troper completely disagrees with the previous one, and thinks he/she missed the entire point of the game. here is a nice essay on why.

Blatant Lies. The game is not a simulation.

What they forgot to state was that it also disregards most of the storylines of Fallout and Fallout 2.
'Course, it takes place on the other side of the continent... so of course most of the stuff that happened in the last games would not have that much of a bearing on the plot.

Poorly made Take That!, and Justifying Edit response to poorly made Take That!

Yep. FFX 2 has only one ending.
This other troper agrees that there's only one ending...but it's the opposite one. So shoot me, I like my fluff.

I don't think it's necessary to inflict Dis Continuity on a game with Multiple Ending (except for when a sequel places a Road Cone).

And remember kids, if you play FFX-2, you're a dumbass who's only in it for the Fanservice.
- It was pretty good Fanservice though.

Natter.

The seven games the make up the Command & Conquer series series are so debated over that the only ones that haven't been discontinued by someone are the first two games, Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun. The latest game, Tiberium Wars, while definitely official canon, is often disregarded for its many retcons and other details. (The MST3K Mantra is often repeated by the opposing sides.) To add to the hilarity, there is also a Novelization of Tiberium Wars, which pretty much conga-lines all over the rest of the series and even the very game it is based on, as well as throwing in mountains of Fridge Logic.
- While Generals is most certainly riding on the franchise's name, it's very likely that Red Alert is in another continuity from the Tiberium storyline, despite Kane.
- Every game bar Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun are regularly rejected by fans. Red Alert 2 because of how silly it is, Renegade because of how silly it is and the minor contradictions, Tiberian Wars for changing the very nature of Tiberium and Red Alert because they just don't think it fits. This troper's personal continuity is Red Alert - Tiberan Dawn - Tiberian Sun and just ignoring everything else.
- According to Word of God, Red Alert is an Alternate Continuity. This is made even more obvoius with the upcoming Red Alert 3, which now has the Red Alert version of Imperial Japan, and WAR BEARS that can be shot out of a cannon and parachuted down to assault the enemy.
  - Word of God? True. Except there are multiple gods, each with their own opinions, with the god of Executive Medling having paid his way to the seat.

Simplifying the Command And Conquer entry. Is the new version good?

The hell is this Command and Conquer thing? Westwood's only game was Dune II

You do not inflict Dis Continuity on entire series.

Sadly, this troper can only pretend that the horrid gameplay, excessively long loading times, and mangled use of air units doesn't exist. And yet the $40 spent buying it will never be seen again.

Yes, Soulstorm sucked. We don't need an addition of "I completely agree with you" on entries.

As far as I'm concerned, the Jedi Exile is male – not out of some attachment to having a male protagonist, but just because I didn't like Disciple and did like Handmaiden.
It is clear however that Darth Revan is female, as the female route is the only way the characters are truly fleshed out. Supposed EU "canon" that Revan is male does not exist.
If by "fleshed out" you mean skinned alive, as was the fate of almost half your party if you went DS, metaphorically speaking, of course.
If you ask This Troper, there's no such thing as a canon gender for Revan or the Exile, though for logical reasons they were both LS (i.e. there's no way the Republic or the Jedi would've survived if either had been DS, and no way the galaxy would've survived if they both went dark. Also, Mira did NOT die fighting Hanharr). The plots of both games were designed to be congruent regardless of gender. At the end of Kotor2, whichever of the gender-dependent party members didn't join the Exile earlier joins the restored Jedi council later, so in the end, it doesn't matter whether Disciple or Handmaiden joined the Exile at first, because both became Jedi anyway.

Replaced by shorter explanation.

In Knights Of The Old Republic II, you may suffer the displeasure of encountering a crazy old lady in a brown robe with no irises or pupils and missing her left hand, making some wild, crazy claims about Revan sacrificing him/herself to the Darkside and destroying the Republic to save it. This is a lie told by a woman unwilling to accept that she screwed up training her student. Revan got cocky and was seduced. 'Nuff said.
- This Troper actually liked that idea. It turned Revan from a Card-Carrying Villain into a Magnificent Bastard. And it made his/her Heel–Face Turn less of a case of Laser-Guided Amnesia and more Revan showing his/her true colors.
- Except y'know, for the whole training soldiers to not just kill, but torture Jedi thing. Not particularly heroic...
- True, that's something even a Magnificent Bastard can't get away from. I should re-phrase that.

"Kreia is a crazy bitch who can't handle rejection very well" doesn't need Dis Continuity, it's an Alternate Character Interpretation. For the record, I agree with you completely. Revan fell. Maybe he sincerely believed that he needed The Dark Side in order to save the Republic, but even if he did start out that way, he still fell victim to Motive Decay, just like everyone else who tried to use the The Dark Side for "the greater good". Personally, I think he left because he felt himself slipping again and he needed to get away for a while.

Pokemon is a series of role-playing games for Nintendo's handheld consoles as well as a few console games that could link up with it. The existence of so-called "spin off" titles like the mythical Mystery Dungeon games is a lie.
- Heeeey, I LIKED mystery dungeon.
- Seconded. For a series completely devoid of characterization and extremely lacking in the plot department, the Mystery Dungeon games were a breath of fresh air. (Okay, so maybe the gameplay wasn't for everyone...)
- Thirded. How many other games do you know where a Freddy Krueger wannabe tells you and your best friend to commit suicide. I Am Not Making This Up.
- Fourthed. There aren't many dungeon crawlers out there that stay fairly true to the basic premise of the genre without being batshit-insanely difficult.

Are the various Spin-Off games even Canon in the first place? Because if they're not, declaring discontinuity is utterly pointless.

Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy did not pull a bait-and-switch on players by being 90% a really really bad Quick Time Event, with an eight button interface that was either invisibly small or obnoxiously large, and with button presses that had less than zero to do with the action.
- The plot also didn't take the I Am Not Making This Up turns it did.

You do not declare discontinuity on a gameplay element.

The arcade gaming scene is dead. There's no Initial D, no Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune, no Tekken 6, no Time Crisis 4, and no House Of The Dead 4. There's no arcades that charge $1 a game—arcades simply do not exist anymore.
- No, arcades are alive and well, and The Great Video Game Crash Of 1983 never happened. All these rumors of photorealistic 3D games are just clever hoaxes.

There is a reason to why the Dis Continuity/Real Life section only deals with Historical Revisionism and not discontinuity on real life. That reason is that when people had the opportunity to declare discontinuity on anything they didn't like, it lead to some amazingly stupid examples. Kind of like these right here.

There's also rumours of a sequel featuring Lloyd as a villain. These rumours are not true.
- They really aren't. Lloyd ISN'T a villain, but Decus is!

Looks like someone declared discontinuity before a sequel was released and never bothered removing it.

For a brief period of time, Atlus considered re-making the N64 Snowboard Kids franchise on the DS, as "SBK." Luckily, this never happened. They most certainly did not make a Darker and Edgier Continuity Reboot of the franchise that reinvisioned the cute Eagle Land kids of the original as annoying Animesque teenagers. They definitely didn't bind projectiles to specific characters, contrary to the spirit of the original. And even if they had done this, they most certainly would have reimagined Gadgeteer Genius Wendy as a cute, glasses-wearing Wrench Wench, and not replaced her with an annoying, Gratuitous Japanese-spouting ninja girl with a lame special attack.

A Continuity Reboot isn't in Canon in the first place.

The Virtual Boy is a lie made up by Nintendos rivals. There never was a red-and-black headache-inducing handheld that was barely portable and only had one decent game.

The Virtual Boy had a decent game? Seriously though, you don't declare discontinuity on stuff like this.

It was recently revealed that Axel's "Other"'s name is Lea. Since Reno has already been accepted as his Other, expect a great deal of Dis Continuity.
- Lea has been confirmed to appear in Birth by Sleep, and his appearance has been shown. People may consider Lea's appearance to be Dis Continuity, due to not being as cool Reno.

The discontinuity doesn't exist — During an interview Nomura stated Reno's character to be the inspiration for Axel, nothing more. Anything tying Axel and Reno together beyond that is nothing but pure Fanon.

djkates: To Cliché — I think you cut a little too much of the Mega Man and Mega Man X stuff. Admittedly, it'd gotten a bit ridiculous, but Command Mission wasn't the only legitimate entry. People do declare Dis Continuity on X6 and later, on the XTreme games, and on the PC-only Mega Man games, and not only due to them being considered to be bad games (all of them also present storyline issues). The rest, though... yeah.

(LATER) I added back stuff on XTreme and the PC only games. This time, it's not just Complaining About Shows You Dont Like.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan: The Super Smash Bros. entry was (apparently) cut in its entirety; apparently, it was proposed (not by me!) that the first entry of the series didn't have a continuity, and so discontinuing its sequel breaks the "there must be a continuity for there to be a Dis Continuity" rule... There is something seriously wrong with that logic.

Anonymous Mc Cartneyfan (again): the "Mewtwo wasn't replaced by Lucario" entry was also objected to because the person excising it felt it was the inverse of Discontinuity - claiming that something that doesn't exist in continuity does. There is precedent for that inverse of Discontinuity being Discontinuity - Star Trek The Animated series (until recently). It can also be rephrased as "Mewtwo was never replaced," which is an informal phrase for a true Dis Continuity. But I can see why that sort of Discontinuity might be awkward in a videogame entry when it involves gameplay elements.

Some fans choose to believe that Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney never happened, mainly because of the new protagonist and what happened to Phoenix (both in terms of events and characterization), despite Word of God specifically stating it was not in an Alternate Universe.

OODavo: Where exactly does Word of God state this? (incidentally, being in an Alternate Universe does not remove it from canon - most theories regarding the Zelda series split it into separate timelines, but don't declare Dis Continuity on any of it. Unless there were some games made for the CD-i, which there were not.) Incidentally, this troper's personal opinion is both: it did happen, and it was in an Alternate Universe. There's an in-depth analysis presenting the evidence regarding the AU theory around somewhere...

Archived Discussion FanonDiscontinuity / VideoGames