History FranchiseOriginalSin / Batman

* [[http://www.cracked.com/blog/why-best-joker-was-worst-thing-superhero-films/ This article]] by David Christopher Bell of ''Website/{{Cracked}}'' asserts that Creator/HeathLedger's portrayal of ComicBook/TheJoker, while still legendary in its own right, "ruined comic book movies" in the long run. He was, and still is, acclaimed for his off-kilter vocal delivery, overall aura of total madness, and deliberately obtuse, nihilistic motivations; his lack of any clear goal beyond general chaos and destroying Batman's image made him terrifying. And of course, Ledger's untimely death -- and the {{urban legend|s}} that he had killed himself as a result of [[FatalMethodActing getting too deep into character]] -- only [[DeadArtistsAreBetter boosted the stature of his final role]].[[note]] The one grain of truth in this popular story is that Ledger ''did'' apparently experience sleep difficulties while playing the part, leading to his accidental overdose on sleeping pills--but that could easily be attributed to the simple stress of appearing in a major Hollywood blockbuster... or [[ImpossiblyMundaneExplanation the divorce he was going through at the time]][[/note]] The Joker copycats, however? A slew of annoying LargeHam villains who used all manner of strange, distracting accents and voices, [[BondVillainStupidity leave the heroes alive]] for no reason beyond making some point about "breaking their spirit", deliberately get themselves caught as some sort of poorly-explained XanatosGambit, commit heinous crimes ForTheEvulz even if they seem to go against their stated end goal, and are written as being insane to justify why their {{evil plan}}s are so full of holes. Many critics have claimed that Creator/JesseEisenberg's widely-panned performance as ComicBook/LexLuthor in ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'' seemed like a very calculated attempt at recreating Heath Ledger's Joker, right down to the odd quirks and mannerisms. They also noted that while those characteristics made sense for a flamboyant and unhinged villain like the Joker (a deranged lunatic who dresses up like a circus clown), they didn't really fit a character who is supposed to be a brilliant and cunning CorruptCorporateExecutive.

* Batman's infamous [[MemeticMutation "prep time"]] is more often than not used by power scalers and fanboy authors who want to show Batman's badassery by depicting him being able to go toe to toe with either characters [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu much more powerful than him]] or entire superteams. The fact that the fights tend to be ridiculously one-sided in Batman's odds (The oponent grabbing the IdiotBall or not having access to prep time themselves usually being the two most common complains) and usually done to [[CharacterShilling fellate Batman's ego]] about how he is just soooooo much better than everybody else is a source of ire and annoyance for most fans. This trend started in ''ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns'', where Bruce infamously managed to beat Superman in a fight. The difference was that Superman was intentionally holding back and it's hinted his powers were weakened by age. Bruce also needed the help of both Robin and ComicBook/GreenArrow to defeat him, and it's more of a PyrrhicVictory: For all his bravado, the brawl is more of a stand-still and he still needs to fake his death to manage to escape and reorganise his entire crime-fighting operation, while Superman comes out relatively unscathed. Finally, the fight itself is pretty simple and straightforward: Batman and Robin distract Superman long enough for Green Arrow to shoot him with an artificial kryptonite arrow (Clark can't stop it because he has been deafened by a sonic pulse and numbed by an [[ShockAndAwe electric attack]]). In stark contrast, Batman now has highly convoluted plans that border on GambitRoulette that allow him to solo as much as the friggin' JLA without breaking a sweat, which feels cheap and forced.

* The manner in which the series has influenced the stylistic direction of the emerging Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse and, to a lesser extent, comic book movies as a whole. When Creator/ChristopherNolan rebooted Batman with a far grittier and more grounded series of stories, he was acclaimed for having vanquished the legacy of ''Batman & Robin''. The thing was, the ''real'' reason why his films were so successful was because he also remembered to tell engaging, complex stories with three-dimensional characters; the darker tone was merely the means by which he did so rather than the main draw in its own right. Furthermore, Batman, as a VigilanteMan who turned to crimefighting after the murder of his parents, proved to be exceptionally well-suited to a darker reimagining. Lastly, Nolan's films had significantly more moments of levity and warmth than many people remember, and they were also surprisingly optimistic, emphasizing the decency of common people. When Creator/DCComics and Creator/WarnerBros applied such DarkerAndEdgier elements of the ''Dark Knight'' formula to ComicBook/{{Superman}} with ''Film/ManOfSteel'' and ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'', taking them into overdrive while they were at it, they got hit with much backlash, to the point where some even compared it to the excesses of MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks.[[note]]Which, [[HistoryRepeats incidentally]], was ''also'' kicked off (at least in part) by a famous DarkerAndEdgier [[ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns Batman story with the title of "The Dark Knight"]] that spawned [[FollowTheLeader a slew of style-over-substance imitators]].[[/note]]

* The manner in which the series has influenced the stylistic direction of the emerging Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse and, to a lesser extent, comic book movies as a whole. When Creator/ChristopherNolan rebooted Batman with a far grittier and more grounded series of stories, he was acclaimed for having vanquished the legacy of ''Batman & Robin''. The thing was, the ''real'' reason why his films were so successful was because he also remembered to tell engaging, complex stories with three-dimensional characters; the darker tone was merely the means by which he did so rather than the main draw in its own right. Furthermore, Batman, as a VigilanteMan who turned to crimefighting after the murder of his parents, proved to be exceptionally well-suited to a darker reimagining. Lastly, Nolan's films had significantly more moments of levity and warmth than many people remember, and they were also surprisingly optimistic, emphasizing the decency of common people. When Creator/DCComics and Creator/WarnerBros applied such DarkerAndEdgier elements of the ''Dark Knight'' formula to ComicBook/{{Superman}} with ''Film/ManOfSteel'' and ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'', taking them into overdrive while they were at it, they got hit with much backlash, to the point where some even compared it to the excesses of UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks.[[note]]Which, [[HistoryRepeats incidentally]], was ''also'' kicked off (at least in part) by a famous DarkerAndEdgier [[ComicBook/BatmanTheDarkKnightReturns Batman story with the title of "The Dark Knight"]] that spawned [[FollowTheLeader a slew of style-over-substance imitators]].[[/note]]

* In recent years, ComicBook/HarleyQuinn, once the EnsembleDarkHorse from ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', has become heavily divisive, with many seeing her as a SpotlightStealingSquad with a heavy amount of CharacterShilling taking time away from other characters. But Harley's time in the spotlight came as a result of becoming a BreakoutCharacter from her debut show, winding up as a CanonImmigrant to the comics because the audience couldn't get enough of her--she would even get roles in ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'', a one-off guest appearance in ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'', a major role in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum'', a semi-recurring role in the short-lived ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' show, and one of the three founders of ''ComicBook/GothamCitySirens''. All this would cumulate in her being added to the main roster of ''ComicBook/SuicideSquad'' when DC relaunched their titles as the ComicBook/New52, even though she'd never been traditionally associated with the squad in the first place. Despite all that, Harley still enjoyed a great deal of popularity due to the fact that she was still kept closer to her traditionally villainous roots while maintaining a very loose grip on sanity. But when she was given her own solo series, Harley was rewritten to be a violent and insane ''AntiHero'' rather than the lunatic criminal she had been portrayed as (largely in an attempt to get her away from being the Joker's girlfriend), while also [[KarmaHoudini glossing over the crimes she did commit during her villainous stint]], and it was from there that most portrayals started to take after that iteration. Not helping matters was that Creator/MargotRobbie's take on Harley in the ''Film/{{Suicide Squad|2016}}'' was universally lauded by even the most ardent of critics, and she would continue to get increasing roles in other projects despite having little reason to be there other than to give major name recognition (notably the ''Film/{{Birds of Prey|2020}}'' movie would have her as the lead despite never being associated with the team in the comics), including her own [[WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019 animated series]]. Even that brief resurgence back to popularity didn't last, as most depictions would always default right back to the anti-hero portrayal while still giving her a great deal of CharacterShilling, turning fans against her just as quickly as they reembraced her. This trend would hit its nadir in ''VideoGame/SuicideSquadKillTheJusticeLeague'' when her Arkhamverse iteration [[spoiler:executed a BrainwashedAndCrazy Batman without much fanfare]], making fans wish DC would just make Harley a straight up villain again.

* Batman has always been called "the world's greatest detective", but to prevent his crossovers with superhuman heroes becoming {{Story Breaker Team Up}}s, the writers inflated his intelligence and preparation abilities to help keep up. While it was odd for essentially a street vigilante to take on PersonsOfMassDestruction, the idea that a BadassNormal could take on [[DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu much more powerful opponents]] was very appealing to read plus helped justify Batman's place in the ''Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' despite his low level of power. However, these match ups became common enough to reach memetic levels, making it seem like he can defeat anyone because [[ComicBook/AllStarBatmanAndRobinTheBoyWonder "I'm the goddamned Batman"]]. Now what is odd is why he ever has trouble on his home turf, which has supervillains low on the power scale at worst, let alone why his preparation abilities have [[ReedRichardsIsUseless not taken Gotham City out of being]] a WretchedHive with [[CardboardPrison repeat offenders.]]

* In recent years, ComicBook/HarleyQuinn, once the EnsembleDarkHorse from ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', has become heavily divisive, with many seeing her as a SpotlightStealingSquad with a heavy amount of CharacterShilling taking time away from other characters. But Harley's time in the spotlight came a result of becoming a BreakoutCharacter from her debut show, winding up as a CanonForeigner to the comics because the audience couldn't get enough of her--she would even get roles in ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'', a one-off guest appearance in ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'', a major role in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum'', a semi-recurring role in the short-lived ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' show, and one of the three founders of ''ComicBook/GothamCitySirens''. All this would cumulate in her being added to the main roster of ''ComicBook/SuicideSquad'' when DC relaunched their titles as ''ComicBook/TheNew52'', even though she'd never been traditionally associated with the squad in the first place. Despite all that, Harley still enjoyed a great deal of popularity due to the fact that she was still kept closer to her traditionally villainous roots while maintaining a very loose grip on sanity. But when she was given her own solo series, Harley was rewritten to be a violent and insane ''anti-hero'' rather than the lunatic criminal she had been portrayed as (largely in an attempt to get her away from being the Joker's girlfriend), while also [[KarmaHoudini glossing over the crimes she did commit during her villainous stint]], and it was from there that most portrayals started to take after that iteration. Not helping matters was that Creator/MargotRobbie's take on Harley in ''Film/SuicideSquad2016'' was universally lauded by even the most ardent of critics, and she would continue to get increasing roles in other projects despite having little reason to be there other than to give major name recognition (notably ''Film/BirdsOfPrey2020'' would have her as the lead despite never being associated with the team in the comics), including her own [[WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019 animated series]]. Even that brief resurgence back to popularity didn't last, as most depictions would always default right back to the anti-hero portrayal while still giving her a great deal of CharacterShilling, turning fans against her just as quickly as they reembraced her. This trend would hit its nadir in ''VideoGame/SuicideSquadKillTheJusticeLeague'' when her Arkhamverse iteration [[spoiler:executed a BrainwashedAndCrazy Batman without much fanfare]], making fans wish DC would just make Harley a straight up villain again.

* In recent years, ComicBook/HarleyQuinn, once the EnsembleDarkHorse from ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries'', has become heavily divisive, with many seeing her as having no better than Batman or her (now-ex) boyfriend Joker as a SpotlightStealingSquad with a heavy amount of CharacterShilling. But Harley's time in the spotlight came a result of becoming a BreakoutCharacter from her debut show, winding up as a CanonForeigner to the comics because the audience couldn't get enough of her--she would even get roles in ''WesternAnimation/TheBatman'', a one-off guest appearance in ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheBraveAndTheBold'', a major role in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamAsylum'', a semi-recurring role in the short-lived ''Series/BirdsOfPrey'' show, and one of the three founders of ''ComicBook/GothamCitySirens''. All this would cumulate in her being added to the main roster of ''ComicBook/SuicideSquad'' when DC relaunched their titles as ''ComicBook/TheNew52'', even though she'd never been traditionally associated with the squad in the first place. Despite all that, Harley still enjoyed a great deal of popularity due to the fact that she was still kept closer to her traditionally villainous roots while maintaining a very loose grip on sanity. But when she was given her own solo series, Harley was rewritten to be a violent and insane ''anti-hero'' rather than the lunatic criminal she had been portrayed as (largely in an attempt to get her away from being the Joker's girlfriend), while also [[KarmaHoudini glossing over the crimes she did commit during her villainous stint]], and it was from there that most portrayals started to take after that iteration. Not helping matters was that Creator/MargotRobbie's take on Harley in ''Film/SuicideSquad2016'' was universally lauded by even the most ardent of critics, and she would continue to get increasing roles in other projects despite having little reason to be there other than to give major name recognition (notably ''Film/BirdsOfPrey2020'' would have her as the lead despite never being associated with the team in the comics), including her own [[WesternAnimation/HarleyQuinn2019 animated series]]. Even that brief resurgence back to popularity didn't last, as most depictions would always default right back to the anti-hero portrayal while still giving her a great deal of CharacterShilling, turning fans against her just as quickly as they reembraced her. This trend would hit its nadir in ''VideoGame/SuicideSquadKillTheJusticeLeague'' when her Arkhamverse iteration [[spoiler:executed a BrainwashedAndCrazy Batman without much fanfare]], making fans wish DC would just make Harley a straight up villain again.

* For those who consider Robin and the other members of the Bat-Family a sin, it's worth noting that Batman was only a loner for eleven months between his debut in ''Detective Comics #27'' and Robin's debut in ''Detective Comics #38. So while people might claim that Batman has and always should be a brooding loner, that stopped being true within less than a year while the Dynamic Duo lasted for decades.

Given the long-running nature of the series, it shouldn't be a surprise that many of the problems people had with the Caped Crusader go back further than they think.

* ComicBook/TheJoker becoming more bloodthirsty in TheSeventies was a refreshing change of pace and justified how one who was once written as a goofy prankster could be Batman's ArchEnemy. It did leave a question of Batman's (and Gotham's law enforcement in general) inability to permanently deal with the threatening clown, but this could be raised to the rest of Batman's RoguesGallery, and moments where he did something genuinely monstrous were mostly outnumbered by [[HarmlessVillain times where he was a capering loon]], which made the genuinely horrible stuff all the more surprising. However, the Joker's bloodthirsty side started to stand out a bit too much, with the actions of [[ComicBook/BatmanADeathInTheFamily brutally murdering Jason Todd]] and [[ComicBook/TheKillingJoke crippling Barbara Gordon]], pushing him into CompleteMonster territory. Worse, stories involving him [[StupidEvil murdering people for no reason]], working in the shadows of the above two, increasingly became the norm for him, causing him to lose the WildCard excuse and a lot of his charm. Compare "The Laughing Fish", often seen as a pivotal 70s Joker story, which shows him start out with a completely absurd plan (attempting to copyright poisoned fish) and only killing people when he's angry that they don't take him seriously, with many modern stories where his entire modus operandi seems random murder from square one. As a result, a character whose gimmick was meant to be unpredictability has become notorious for his predictable stories, and a lot of fans believe that making him an exception to Batman's [[ThouShaltNotKill strict refusal to kill]] would be the more heroic stance for the Dark Knight to take.

* ComicBook/TheJoker becoming more bloodthirsty in TheSeventies was a refreshing change of pace and justified how one who was once written as a goofy prankster could be Batman's ArchEnemy. It did leave a question of Batman's (and Gotham's law enforcement in general) inability to permanently deal with the threatening clown, but this could be raised to the rest of Batman's RoguesGallery, and moments where he did something genuinely monstrous were mostly outnumbered by [[HarmlessVillain times where he was a capering loon]], which made the genuinely horrible stuff all the more surprising. However, the Joker's bloodthirsty side started to stand out a bit too much, with the actions of [[ComicBook/ADeathInTheFamily brutally murdering Jason Todd]] and [[ComicBook/TheKillingJoke crippling Barbara Gordon]], pushing him into CompleteMonster territory. Worse, stories involving him [[StupidEvil murdering people for no reason]], working in the shadows of the above two, increasingly became the norm for him, causing him to lose the WildCard excuse and a lot of his charm. Compare "The Laughing Fish", often seen as a pivotal 70s Joker story, which shows him start out with a completely absurd plan (attempting to copyright poisoned fish) and only killing people when he's angry that they don't take him seriously, with many modern stories where his entire modus operandi seems random murder from square one. As a result, a character whose gimmick was meant to be unpredictability has become notorious for his predictable stories, and a lot of fans believe that making him an exception to Batman's [[ThouShaltNotKill strict refusal to kill]] would be the more heroic stance for the Dark Knight to take.

* The first film was [='=]''Batman'': starring Creator/JackNicholson as ComicBook/TheJoker.' ''Film/BatmanReturns'' was similar -- its [[VillainTeamUp two villains]] combined have more screen time than Batman. This was largely tolerated at the time since both films were only the 1st and 2nd installments in the series (with the 1st one in particular being most contemporary audience members and critics' first proper exposure to Batman at all), Batman still contributed to the plot enough in both films to feel relevant to the stories, and the big name performers portraying the villains in both films put on good enough performances to make their characters' degree of focus feel worth sitting through. Unfortunately, this led the way for ''Film/BatmanForever'' and ''Batman & Robin'' to become overcrowded with villains and the same 'villain shows up, teams up with other villain, they fight Batman, Batman wins' plot repeated in every sequel, while also having the villains be portrayed by big name actors who turned in performances that made it feel very suspiciously as if they'd only been picked for their names rather than for their ability to properly portray their characters. Creator/MichaelKeaton and Creator/ValKilmer both left the series because they felt that the movies had become more about the bad guys than Batman. Somewhat tellingly, Burton's ''Batman'' even gives a definitive identity and origin story to the Joker--which he has ''never'' had in the comics--but is surprisingly vague about Batman's origins. [[note]] To go in a different direction, Nolan's [[Film/TheDarkKnightTrilogy trilogy]] did the opposite: it devotes the entirety of ''Film/BatmanBegins'' to chronicling Bruce Wayne's early life and the start of his crime-fighting career--in much greater detail than it's ever been shown in the comics--but leaves the Joker shrouded in mystery in ''Film/TheDarkKnight''. [[/note]]

* The romantic relationship between Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon was one of the most criticized aspects of the AnimatedAdaptation of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheKillingJoke'', due to many finding it to be NoYay (given their usual father/daughter dynamic and Barbara usually being far younger than him). However, the idea of depicting Bruce and Barbara as a couple goes back quite a bit, as the pairing was originally planned for ''The Animated Series'' (though it was scrapped) and later works in the DCAU (such as ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanMysteryOfTheBatwoman'') have heavily implied that Bruce and Barbara are dating or have been on a fling. However, even in those works, the relationship was mostly limited to brief subtext and was never made the focus, making it easy to miss or ignore unlike ''The Killing Joke'', which brought it to the forefront and made it explicit.

* ''Batman & Robin'' is incredibly campy, but there was a certain level of camp present in ''Batman'' that only increased with every following installment. The first film had most of the Joker's scenes, from the giant revolver to the museum robbery, and the second film had the Penguin remote-controlling the Batmobile with an arcade machine and eventually plotting to destroy Gotham with an army of missile penguins. However, in these cases, the camp was balanced out with the dark noir and gothic aesthetics and themes that Batman had become known to general audiences for by that point. It's also worth mentioning that the Joker is a character who lends himself better to {{camp}}, what with his clown gimmick that led to some darkly humorous scenes. Mister Freeze, meanwhile, had just benefited from an [[WesternAnimation/BatmanTheAnimatedSeries animated reimagining]] that portrayed him as an unemotional, yet tragic figure - a far cry from Schwarzenegger's singing television jingles while wearing bunny slippers.

[[folder:The comics]]

[[folder:The movies]]

[[folder:Other media]]

!!''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamSeries

The romantic relationship between Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon was one of the most criticized aspects of the AnimatedAdaptation of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheKillingJoke'', due to many finding it to be NoYay (given their usual father/daughter dynamic and Barbara usually being far younger than him). However, the idea of depicting Bruce and Barbara as a couple goes back quite a bit, as the pairing was originally planned for ''The Animated Series'' (though it was scrapped) and later works in the DCAU (such as ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanMysteryOfTheBatwoman'') have heavily implied that Bruce and Barbara are dating or have been on a fling. However, even in those works, the relationship was mostly limited to brief subtext and was never made the focus, making it easy to miss or ignore unlike ''The Killing Joke'', which brought it to the forefront and made it explicit.

* Batman killing criminals. As Creator/ZackSnyder pointed out in interviews, the Batman from the Creator/TimBurton movies ''did'' in fact kill, or at least caused situations where the criminal died, such as killing the Joker at the end of his first movie or letting his goons die by their own mistakes. However, Burton's liberal use of DisneyVillainDeath and GoryDiscretionShot makes the Batman's kills look rather cartoonish instead of disturbing, and nobody brings up the deaths in-universe so that the audience is less likely to become fixated on these kills. Plus, the film never really discusses the notion of Batman and killing in any way, helping make audiences not dwell on them. By contrast, Batman killing people in ''Film/BatmanVSupermanDawnOfJustice'' drew ire from regular moviegoers because unlike with the Burton films, ''BVS'' did draw attention to it, by having Batman being angry at Superman for the events of ''Film/ManOfSteel'', which makes Batman's actions look hypocritical of him since we see him actively killing people in ways that are far less justified compared to Superman's DestructiveSavior issues from ''Man Of Steel'', the only justification being the offscreen death of ComicBook/{{Robin}}. Not only that, but because the gap between the two films has long since made the idea of Batman's "no killing rule" a widely accepted part of his character, it meant that when Snyder had Batman killing criminals with no remorse, people were livid and found it to be a bad direction to take the character, and remained a controversial debate of his portrayal in the Franchise/DCExtendedUniverse despite Batman undergoing (implicit) character development to reignite his no-kill rule in the very same film he was killing criminals in.[[note]]It should be noted this is also due to ExecutiveMeddling preventing a plot point from being clearly stated in the theatrical cut. Many reviewers were so angry at other kills in the film that they were unable to notice that the most significant kills attributed to Batman, the deaths of criminals he branded, were actually killed by ComicBook/LexLuthor for the purpose of [[FrameUp framing him]] and [[LetsYouAndHimFight motivating Superman to fight him]], which is more clearly shown in the film's extended ''Ultimate Edition''.[[/note]]

* As well acclaimed as ''ComicBook/TheDarkKnightReturns'' is, it did kickstart some less than desirable trends.

The romantic relationship between Bruce Wayne and Barbara Gordon was one of the most criticized aspects of the AnimatedAdaptation of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanTheKillingJoke'', due to many finding it to be NoYay (given their usual father/daughter dynamic and Barbara usually being far younger than him). However, the idea of depicting Bruce and Barbara as a couple goes back quite a bit, as ''The Animated Series'' and later works in the DCAU (such as ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' and ''WesternAnimation/BatmanMysteryOfTheBatwoman'') have all heavily implied that Bruce and Barbara are dating or have been on a fling. However, in those works, the relationship was mostly limited to brief subtext and was never made the focus, making it easy to miss or ignore unlike ''The Killing Joke'', which brought it to the forefront and made it explicit.