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[002] TheSwordsman Current Version

14th Mar '18 at 01:52:12 PM

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OK I have gone over the interview dragonfire5000 has given me and to properly go through this discussion, I think it best to review what we know about The Great Will and the Axiom. Game sources can be found on Youtube if you don't have a copy, while the interview has already been provided by dragonfire5000. (I hold the belief that they are the same character, which is also the same conclusion the SMT Reddit and both SMT wikis have gone with, but for the sake of argument I will keep them separate)

to:

OK I have gone over the interview dragonfire5000 has given me and to properly go through this discussion, I think it best to review what we know about The Great Will and the Axiom. Game sources can be found on Youtube if you don\'t have a copy, while the interview has already been provided by dragonfire5000. (I hold the belief that they are the same character, which is also the same conclusion the SMT Reddit and both SMT wikis have gone with, but for the sake of argument I will keep them separate)

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1. It is known as the Great Reason/Axiom (source: SMTIV:A and it's interview)

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1. It is known as the Great Reason/Axiom (source: SMTIV:A and it\'s interview)

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2.. It created the universe and humans and gifted them the power of observation (source: SMTIV:A and it's interview)

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2.. It created the universe and humans and gifted them the power of observation (source: SMTIV:A and it\'s interview)

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1. It is first mentioned in Megami Tensei II, upon YHVH's defeat, he states that he is only a small part of the entity which rules over infinite universes, and that its vast consciousness will simply recreate his body. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

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1. It is first mentioned in Megami Tensei II, upon YHVH\'s defeat, he states that he is only a small part of the entity which rules over infinite universes, and that its vast consciousness will simply recreate his body. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

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\"As long as people continue to seek my salvation, the will of the universe will recreate me, again and again and again....\"-YHVH (source: SMT2 Law path)

3. SMT3:Nocturne reveals that the GW created Kagutsuchi to facilitate the death and rebirth of universes and Lucifer wants to make the Demi-fiend his demon champion against the GW, while Metatron is sent by the GW to stop him from succeeding (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Demi-fiend)

4. It is worshiped in Catholic Churches. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

Ambiguous stuff we know about the Great Will or the Axiom,

1. (GW) Known avatars are (put here because of SMT4) YHVH, Kagutsuchi, Sabaoth, Shaddai, Elohim, Ancient of Days, Metatron and Kuzuryu (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

2. (GW) The mysterious voice that turns Zayin against YHVH in the IOS remake seems to be describing the Great Will when it says this,

Voice: \"Do not try to obey something. Do not try to obey someone. Do not think of God as having just one face. God is not good. God is everything. Everything is God. You too can become a face of God.\"
(source: translated dialogue from the Fragment of Petrification Prison item in SMT2\'s IOS remake provided by SMT Reddit, https://pastebin.com/NrPG6DWP

3. (Axiom) Mastema seems to be working for the Axiom in SMT4 (source:SMT 4)

Shared traits,

1. Both have been said to behind creation.

2. Both have been said to be the creator of YHVH

3. Both have been described as a sentient cosmic force.

As noted by both HamburgerTime and OmegaRadiance not only is the name the Great Reason similar to the Great Will, there are several Japanese terms used to refer to it.

As for the complaint that it is too ambiguous and is described by other characters, instead of directly appearing itself, we have a entry for both Anu and Padomay from The Elder Scrolls and unlike both the Great Will and Reason they haven\'t done anything in that series recently. (unless you count Sithis)

[001] TheSwordsman

14th Mar '18 at 01:49:15 PM

Changed line(s) 1 from:

n

OK I have gone over the interview dragonfire5000 has given me and to properly go through this discussion, I think it best to review what we know about The Great Will and the Axiom. Game sources can be found on Youtube if you don't have a copy (I hold the belief that they are the same character, which is also the same conclusion the SMT Reddit and both SMT wikis have gone with, but for the sake of argument I will keep them separate)

to:

OK I have gone over the interview dragonfire5000 has given me and to properly go through this discussion, I think it best to review what we know about The Great Will and the Axiom. Game sources can be found on Youtube if you don\'t have a copy, while the interview has already been provided by dragonfire5000. (I hold the belief that they are the same character, which is also the same conclusion the SMT Reddit and both SMT wikis have gone with, but for the sake of argument I will keep them separate)

Changed line(s) 5 from:

n

1. It is known as the Great Reason/Axiom (source: SMTIV:A and it's interview)

to:

1. It is known as the Great Reason/Axiom (source: SMTIV:A and it\'s interview)

Changed line(s) 7 from:

n

2.. It created the universe and humans and gifted them the power of observation (source: SMTIV:A and it's interview)

to:

2.. It created the universe and humans and gifted them the power of observation (source: SMTIV:A and it\'s interview)

Changed line(s) 17 from:

n

1. It is first mentioned in Megami Tensei II, upon YHVH's defeat, he states that he is only a small part of the entity which rules over infinite universes, and that its vast consciousness will simply recreate his body. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

to:

1. It is first mentioned in Megami Tensei II, upon YHVH\'s defeat, he states that he is only a small part of the entity which rules over infinite universes, and that its vast consciousness will simply recreate his body. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

Changed line(s) 21 from:

n

to:

\"As long as people continue to seek my salvation, the will of the universe will recreate me, again and again and again....\"-YHVH (source: SMT2 Law path)

3. SMT3:Nocturne reveals that the GW created Kagutsuchi to facilitate the death and rebirth of universes and Lucifer wants to make the Demi-fiend his demon champion against the GW, while Metatron is sent by the GW to stop him from succeeding (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Demi-fiend)

4. It is worshiped in Catholic Churches. (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

Ambiguous stuff we know about the Great Will or the Axiom,

1. (GW) Known avatars are (put here because of SMT4) YHVH, Kagutsuchi, Sabaoth, Shaddai, Elohim, Ancient of Days, Metatron and Kuzuryu (source: SMT wiki, http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Will)

2. (GW) The mysterious voice that turns Zayin against YHVH in the IOS remake seems to be describing the Great Will when it says this,

Voice: \"Do not try to obey something. Do not try to obey someone. Do not think of God as having just one face. God is not good. God is everything. Everything is God. You too can become a face of God.\"
(source: translated dialogue from the Fragment of Petrification Prison item in SMT2\'s IOS remake provided by SMT Reddit, https://pastebin.com/NrPG6DWP

3. (Axiom) Mastema seems to be working for the Axiom in SMT4 (source:SMT 4)

Shared traits,
1. Both have been said to behind creation.

2. Both have been said to be the creator of YHVH

3. Both have been described as a sentient cosmic force.

As noted by both HamburgerTime and OmegaRadiance not only is the name the Great Reason similar to the Great Will, there are several Japanese terms used to refer to it.

As for the complaint that it is too ambiguous and is described by other characters, instead of directly appearing itself, we have a entry for both Anu and Padomay from The Elder Scrolls and unlike both the Great Will and Reason they haven\'t done anything in that series recently. (unless you count Sithis)

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