An Official Banning Policy?

Why exactly would that be necessary? Although there have been some recent hostilities in Writer's Block, it seems like the overwhelming majority of these problems occur in On-Topic Conversations - and I'll go on record as one person who specifically avoids that section because of it. So if things are getting out of hand there, why would it affect the rest of the forums?

edited 20th Dec '11 4:55:02 PM by nrjxll

Terrence, we are not here to offer you a free alternative to Something Awful. That was a frankly stupid thing to say. Anyone who really wants to join in over there can easily find a way to afford it, or at least if you can't, you have way bigger problems than forum oppression. Really.

A brighter future for a darker age.

It's not the forums that are the issue, it's the criticism. If you'd just trust us to do our jobs, it wouldn't be a problem, but every time one of these situation occurs, it turns into a massive blowup that wastes enormous amounts of our time. Mine, in particular in this case. My sympathy with Eddie's position increases by the minute, to the point where I need to take a break. Back later.

@Terrence: Ha! You know what we, here, think of SA? I'm sure you can guess.

Okay, that's it.

edited 20th Dec '11 4:57:26 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Fighteer

If you want something constructive, then how about somebody writes a draft for the rules they want to see to clarify what "being a dick" is, then the mods can help fix it up so that it stops Rules Lawyers and other undesirable posters from taking advantage of the rules.

"Dr. Strangeloid, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Cleanlink" - thespacephantom

^^^Being okay with someone's views and saying "fuck you, asshole" are not the only two ways to deal with a person.

edited 20th Dec '11 4:59:09 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

(Sorry, one more post)

And now I'm curious why you think that's something thumpworthy. Because it isn't.

@Loid: Go right ahead, do a draft of it. Sincerity Mode.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:01:06 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Personally speaking (i.e. this is not any claim to consensus among the moderating staff), what does tick me off is the constant assumption of bad faith from the moderators. Sure, we make mistakes; we're human, we screw up, we don't always know the complete backstory of what goes on, and we're not necessarily consistent or always fair.

We are, however, a bunch of people who are volunteering our time to help run things, who care about the site enough to do that, and who are honestly trying to do the best we can to keep the place running. A little more appreciation of that would be nice. We are not paid employees who you can bitch out if something annoys you. We don't have dollars making that treatment OK.

It's worth noting, also, that the demands of what we should be doing are often quite contradictory. We have people saying we should ban people for offensive opinions yet others getting mad at us when we ban anyone, even for patent and repeated dickery.

A brighter future for a darker age.

No, you do not need to explain anything. You can help to change their opinion, but acting like they don't have a right to it is wrong. Nobody's opinion is wrong, no matter how morally corrupt it sounds. Opinions cannot be wrong or right. It's how a person feels. Everybody has different morals.

That's just how life is. People are different. Expressing them in a respectful way, regardless of what they are, is all we can do. Some are better left not said, but that doesn't make the person banworthy just because they feel that way. Creepy, maybe. Just avoid the person instead.

Morals are 100% subjective as well. Things are not black and white. Some people find murder okay. Yeah, maybe we could call them sick fucks for that. Not that we should. Just shake your head and walk away. Or ignore it. If they say it in a disrespectful manner, then yes, report them. But saying their opinion is wrong is the wrong thing to do. Prove to them what the problem is, don't cause trouble for it. They're not trolling because they were brought up that way. The list of people that condole Hitler's actions is most likely less than 0.0000000000000000001% of the world. I sure don't. But I am not going to go and rip on a person who believes he did the right thing. Because that's still being a dick to them. And that in itself is against the rule. The best thing is to perhaps just have no topics on rape or murder, etc, instead, but eh.

Quest 64 thread

This is my personal view - thread topics that are likely to turn into messes are really just not a good idea at all. This is the internet - it's not a place where assuming that we can have rational discussions about controversial subjects is likely to pay off.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:07:48 PM by nrjxll

Believe me, if someone starts a thread like that, holler it and we'll deal with it quite harshly, given all the trouble they cause. In fact, we may make a pass through OTC later and lop off some heads.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

While I recognise that you would not like me to use examples from recently banned tropers, the first that comes to mind is this topic from It Just Awes Me. To summarise, several users took offence at the fact that the charity mentioned in the first post was dedicated solely to women *

. Two of Yeah Bro's posts in that topic were thumped — the content of those posts may remain in the post (merely hidden by the thump tag).

But if it is, you can verify that (unless I recall incorrectly), those posts were, at worst, pointing out that the posters complaining about sexism may have their priorities mixed up.

I do realise that I may have forgotten the wording slightly, but some of it may have been taken harsher then it might have been intended to be taken; they seemed like perfectly reasonable posts to me, with the worst turn-of-phrase being "they're doing more to help people then you guys bitching about sexism". I may have missed something out, though.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:16:43 PM by AllanAssiduity

1) The first example is a problem, the second one is just creepy. Being creepy is not against the rules, but if it becomes too much, a thump may happen. I prefer to avoid creepiness if possible, but eh.

2) Depends how they say it. Saying it like that is not really flaming or calling them names. If you show racist tendencies, and somebody points that out, that's not exactly a problem. Because just saying you are isn't being a dick about it. It depends the entire context.

3) Exactly.

@Yesman: No, we should not condemn them. It is not our job to do so. Being a dick to them is still being a dick to them. There is no special meaning behind this. You do not be a dick to anyone on this site.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:17:53 PM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread

Now I, personally, would nuke those threads and at the very least tell the OP that doing it again would get them a quick entry in the banning system. For one thing, creating those threads is quite clearly trolling for angry responses; thus it IS disruption.

For another thing, we have a long history of thumping or banning such posts.

I think the idea that we don't ever ban or thump for the mere expression of a repulsive opinion is an incorrect one and it always has been.

Now, I'll admit that sometimes we tended to come down harsher on the person that lost their cool than the person whose being offensive caused them to lose their cool. That's problematic. I'm personally not doing that in my moderation decisions these days, and I don't think anyone else intends to either.

A brighter future for a darker age.

Oh, hi Kashchei. Bye again.

@debass: Morven is right. The guy making those posts in (1) would likely be thumped on the spot. That is extremely rude and inappropriate under any circumstances. I would be inclined to tolerate (2) as long as it didn't get too rude, but [civil] thumps might be warranted.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:21:53 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

It's none of our jobs to condemn them. At best, we would rather not let the topic be discussed. That causes no Flame Wars, and nobody gets hurt.

This messageboard is not for us to go on some crusade to attack beliefs we don't like. There is no reason for that. If the topic is inappropriate, we change it or lock the topic. That's it.

Edit: Okay, now my posts like odd. Should I just stop responding to someone trying to say it's okay to be a dick?

edited 20th Dec '11 5:22:45 PM by Hydronix

Quest 64 thread

Probably. It's just trolling at this point.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Serious question: does this thread even have a real purpose anymore?

Wait, we aren't planning on using moral relativism in forum policy like Hydronix is suggesting, are we?

"Dr. Strangeloid, or How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Cleanlink" - thespacephantom

Oh, dear powers that be, Loid, would you cut it out? No, we are not saying that all opinions are equally acceptable to expound on a private forum.

It is also not inherently acceptable to equate the worth of an opinion with the worth of the person holding it.

edited 20th Dec '11 5:31:51 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"