When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

That is a quite obvious one. It is a Japanese meme. Too bad we at this side of the world just heard from it on a Haruhi-chan Shout-Out.

There is apparently some others as well, this time to western Golden Age mysteries. Apparently some of Will's line in his fight with Clair are quotes from old novels. I don't know much, though, just heard a bit.

Out of curiosity (and a theory) is there any canonical information about the various Umineko characters' blood types?

I don't think so. The Umineko wiki doesn't seem to list it for any character.

Alright, one thing I don't get about Higurashi: Why is Ooishi an asshole in some arcs, but a nice guy in most of the other ones?

It has a lot to do with the way people see him or interpret his actions. In Tatarigoroshi-hen, IIRC, he made Keiichi try to dig up Teppei's corpse, but only because he (correctly) suspected that Keiichi had killed him. In some other arc (or maybe the same, I don't remember), he tells Keiichi to be careful to not make enemies, and it comes off as a warning with a lot of subtext. In Minagoroshi, he again warns Keiichi, but this time he recognizes that he means it whole-heartedly, and actually cares for a civilian such as himself.

A big theme in Higurashi is that the truth can be very different depending on how much you know or don't know. For example, in Watanagashi, the reader obviously feel very suspicious of Rena due to her acting the way she did in Onikakushi, and wonder why she suddenly acts sensible and helps Keiichi so much. However, after Tsumihoroboshi, we can clearly see that the whole thing was just a horrible misunderstanding that spiraled out of control. Every single scene after Onikakushi in which you would think Rena or Mion are acting out of character (at least compared to Onikakushi) makes sense after that. Same thing happens with Ooishi. Any other doubts?

Other than what they say, that's how it goes.

The theme pops up in Umineko too, especially where I just read. Starting to think that not one of the Ushiromiyas are guilty.

Part of the point of having multiple stories with the same starting point is you can analyses the characters from multiple point of views. It is not only Ooishi who receives this treatment in Higurashi, your opinion of pretty much every character will vary drastically as you read the chapters. The only exception in the main characters I would nominate would be Akasaka.

That being said, I don't think this is as present in Umineko. It is definitively there and it is even there for many characters, but it don't seem as noteworthy as in Higurashi. For one thing, the main, POV, characters, Battler and Ange, seems to be very stable so far.

In the end, I think the change is just not as dramatic as in Higurashi. Maybe it is the reason I enjoyed the 'thriller' of Higurashi more then Umineko.

Btw, where you are, Neobowman? Have you somehow menages to stay away from spoiler, despite frequenting this thread? Do you want was to be more carefull with what we talk? I am only spoilertaging EP7, but I may for other Episodes, if you want.

I'm finished episode 3, and I'm going into episode 4. Right now I'm near the point where Miyo (Lamdadelta) is talking to Ange about Bern tricking her.

You do realize this is not near enough to guess where you are in the Episode right? ^^; This time have so many stories running in parallel that it is hard to position one in relation to the others. Using Jhiday Liveblogging as reference, I presume you are still before the First Twilight but have gone past a good chunk of Ange's flash...back? Forward? Anyway, there is still a lot to happen.

Hope you enjoy this Episode. And don't feel bad if you don't understand what the hell happens this time. Personally, I think I have a good idea of most of what happened in all the other Episodes, but still don't have a clue what goes on in this one.

I just noticed you were the one that started this unfinished Liveblogging. Too bad you gave up. I find really entertaining to read the opinion of the previous Episode without foreknowledge.

Yeah, it took too much writing time and it the suspense wasn't there when I wrote what I was feeling.

I don't know why, but I can't post this to Jhiday's liveblod, so I'll put it here. Here there be spoilers up thru Ep6.

Jhiday - I've been thinking the "Eva did it" theory for Ep3 has seemed too easy for a while now, and 6's big reveal and someone else's WMG gave me a theory for it:

WMG:Eva didn't find the gold when we thought she did in Episode 3

Assuming for the moment that Eva did find the gold, but the scenes of her finding it are just more of Beatrice's misdirection: When Eva pretended to be sick so she could 'be alone with Hideyoshi', it wasn't to go kill Rosa, as she had no way of knowing then that Rosa was also going to be outside. It was so she'd have an excuse to search for the gold without anyone else knowing she was on to a possible solution to the epitaph!

Rosa talked Maria into her tantrum to give herself an excuse to do the same thing, but while Eva did find the gold, she couldn't tell the others, because Rosa found "Beatrice", who killed her. (Rosa was armed, so she was probably killed by someone she recognized, and who she wasn't afraid of. An apparently badly-wounded Shannon, maybe?) As a result, Eva couldn't admit searching for the gold without being Suspect #1 in Rosa and Maria's deaths. Hideyoshi DID slip up with the cigarette butt, which is why Kyrie had it in her pocket later.

Given the facts of Episode 3, this level of reasoning is possible for *WHACK*

(Full disclosure - I've been spoiled a bit on Episode 7, but I haven't gotten far enough in it to know if this is right or not.)

Note that if I'm right, this means Beato was trolling us on even more levels than we thought - the whole scene with Eva The Younger becoming Eva-Beatrice was also a complete sham, as Eva hadn't even found the gold yet!

edited 25th Dec '10 1:10:03 AM by arbane

The "someone else" would be me, I believe.

I agree about your timing theory, but I really think Rosa's death was a passionate murder, not a planned one. Two reasons, the gun that was found near the body when the way she died. The cause of the death seems more like an accident then a murder, and I think no one on the Island would dispute that if it was not for Maria.

Also, note they are both not staked, so that probably means their killer was not the same as the previous Episodes.

God, even with the winter break, it's soooooo hard to get through the boring parts of Umineko. That's one of the two bad parts of the VN.

Is the other one the art?

Finally got the manga for Onikakushi-hen and the manga exclusive Beyond Midnight arc.

Haven't read the Beyond Midnight arc yet, but from what I've read of Onikakushi-hen, it just feels like I'm re-reading the VN.

@ arbane : While it's a somewhat interesting theory, I'm not really buying it yet.

(And I should probably keep away from this thread until I'm done with EP 7, shouldn't I ?)

I'm spamming in this thread and I'm on episode 4.

Yeah, the other one is art.

Jhiday - I'm not convinced myself, it just seemed like a good WMG theory.

Episode 8 is going to come out any second now! Anyone has any last minute theories?

This story will have a happy ending.

My theory is that I should really be avoiding this thread until I catch up.

Novatel: I've got one theory about its structure: It's going to be two competing stories, Battler's and Bernkastel's.

Thanks to some guy on You Tube with more enthusaism than knowledge of copyright law, I just finished Episode 7. Damn you, Bernkastel. That was pretty grim.

edited 30th Dec '10 2:24:09 PM by arbane

This thread's official anthem.

For fuck's sake Youtube, this video was uploaded in 2010 and you have 240'd it?

edited 30th Dec '10 2:27:59 PM by nohaynicklibre

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

GOAT WITH LOSER FLAGS OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDD HAHAHAHAHA

lol purple text.

It's funny because blue + red = purple

And from what I'm seeing, Umineko ep 8 seems to be Umineko meets Phoenix Wright meets Professor Layton.

edited 31st Dec '10 4:19:20 AM by Ganel