When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

I just realized that all of the Higurashi arcs end in -shi. Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi, Meakashi, Tsumihoroboshi, and so on.

^I think Shi means Arc in japanese

No, that's -hen. As in, Onikakushi-hen or Minagoroshi-hen.

edited 25th Sep '10 12:33:22 PM by Thnikkafan

Doesn't shi mean four?

It also means death. They're all mostly named the "(Something)-Killing Chapter."

edited 27th Sep '10 5:05:26 PM by arbane

Why don't we make a list of all the Anti-Fantasy elements of Umineko?

Such as? Ep5 & 6 make it pretty clear that there IS a mundane solution to all the weirdness on Rokkenjima. (A mundane explanation for the meta-world is probably impossible.)

Using the Big Reveals in Eps 4 and 6, I'm working through the V Ns again. I'm pretty sure it's possible to come up with a workable theory that Shkannon, possibly with help, is the culprit in the first 4 games. I haven't looked at 7 yet, so it may torpedo my theories...

^^ Ahem. Detective Chapter, Cotton Drifting Chapter, Atonement Chapter, Snatched by Demons Chapter. AKA, Meakashi-hen, Watanagashi-hen, Tsumihoroboshi-hen, and Onikakushi-hen.

^^ Well, I wouldn't count too much on disproving or proving theories with EP 7, seeing as how it is apparently dedicated to confusing the viewer (I haven't read it myself yet).

No, better yet, it goes like this: the game is based on fan theories and what Bernkastel thinks is the truth, so some things are probably true and some things are probably false, but not much is said in red, from what I gather.

Anti-Fantasy? Anti-Mystery? What's that? This is a Mystery, because Beato wants Battler to solve the murders. And it is a Fantasy because of the Meta-World, and all the magic that occurs there. If you were to read Umineko entirely as a Mystery, you wouldn't be able to trust red text, due to it being a truth given out by a supernatural being; for that matter you couldn't trust the scenes narrated by Beatrice in the first place. If you were to read it entirely as a Fantasy, there'd be no point to try and solve it, because of witches.

In other words, Umineko must be read as both Mystery and Fantasy to be solved. Its what makes it so unique.

edited 8th Oct '10 3:00:49 PM by Crinias

Well said.

^^

It should be note that this can only be said now. In the first four chapters (that are considered a separated game), the anti-mystery and anti-fantasy make more sense. By then, there it is hard to say if there is a solution or if the magic stuff really had any relevance (at any level).

Also, saying 'anti' instead 'pro' also has a meaning. As we can easily observation now, despite what Beatrice said, a mystery story doesn't need to be devoid of fantasy, and vice versa. The original discussion was not about Battler or Beato trying to prove they were right, but to prove the other was wrong (so they could be right). Yup, it was a game of twisted logic since the beginning (and it was simplicity described as such).

Btw, I have the PS 2 sprite only patch for all Higurashi, if anyone is interested (including the last one). I really like the original background so I didn't want it to be replaced by the bland PS 2 ones.

About the 'shi' of Higurashi. There is no special meaning, apparently. It is always written in hiragana, not kanji. Also, it don't seem to indicate the function of the word in the prhase, as it varies. 'goroshi' (of minagoroshi) means murder as a noun (instead of a verb, gorosu). But Hayashi (of matsuribayashi) is just another form of say the verb hayasu (so here is a verb, unlike goroshi). I would say it is just of the sounding of the thing.

edited 8th Oct '10 6:26:27 PM by Heatth

Going through Umineko and the first (maybe last) D'awww moment in the VN. George's proposal to Shannon. Music soars and then... Screen crack. Shit, that was so well planned.

Quick question: how do the TIPS work, anyway? I've been playing and I haven't seen any...

I don't know about Umineko... in Higurashi you just play long enough and it blacks out into the "you've received new TIPS" screen and then you just read them from the menu that shows up...

Got through episode 1 of Umineko (VN). Going through the start of episode 2 but god, the fantasy —— is boring. I want to get to the mystery/horror section.

It'll get there. And the later fantasy stuff interests me, at least. Ro7 has a really weird imagination.

The episode 2 is usually considered the worse of the series. As a hint, do not take for granted everything that happened "on-screen". Focus on Battler perspective. That way even the most fantastic scenes become a mystery riddle.

About the TIPS. In Higurashi is how Muzozavr said. There the TIPS are like mine scenes from a perspective other then the main character.

In Umineko is completely different. Eventually during the game you may hear a 'water ripple' sound (just like the one you hear after the introduction of a new character). That means you received a new TIPS. Go to the TIPS menu and read the TIPS. There the TIPS are either stuff you already read in the main story, but stored for your convenience (like the many letters and the Epitaph) or random supplementary information (like information about the weapons used in story). The majority of this 'supplementary information' are actually just received after the end of the story, so make sure to check every new episode.

Ok, I finished episode 2, and the tea parties. Now, I want to continue on through the story but I also want to try and figure out the closed room problems for both episode 1 and 2. If someone wants to give me hints, I certainly wouldn't mind.

Also really enjoying the Higurashi in this. Lambda is Takano I assume.

Also, "Nipa!" YEAHHHH

About the spoiler: Maybe. Both names can be read as 34 (Miyo is written with the kanji for 3 and 4 and Lambdadelta is greek for 34) and they do share a few similarities and Lambda may refer to Higurashi from time to time, just like Bern. No one is sure, though, the series is purposely confusing about this. The same goes for Bern (yeah, we are not even sure if Bernkastel is the same as Frederika Bernkastel). (That is it, unless EP7 changed it)

About hints. Well, first lets say people are not sure, so no one here has the real answers (unless, again, EP7 changed that). Also, keep in mind you are not supposed to answer everything yet, this will be only possible after EP4 (thou you are supposed to try to solve anyway, it is also more fun this way).

So, remember to focus on Battler and particularly his narration (this goes as back as EP1). Do not take his readings for granted, though as he is almost as a newcomer as you are (he missed a bunch of meetings, so he does not really know most of his relatives). If you chose to disbelieve in the magical stuff (which I assume you are, since you want to solve the closed rooms), focus more in the aftermath then in the scene itself (this is a hint from EP3, actually). Also, try to keep a track of where is everybody, when they die, what they know and who they met and when they met. Try to look for the similarities and the differences between the episodes.

edited 24th Nov '10 10:36:34 PM by Heatth

^^ Newbowman, let's just say that once you figure out the other gimmick this storyline has, all of the closed rooms become laughably easy. You must not trust some of the information being given to you. The closed room mysteries are a distraction from the real question... which is something you have to find out yourself

edited 25th Nov '10 9:17:22 AM by TheAdversary

After so many murders, revelations, declarations of hate, so much suffering, pain, and twisted truth, is a happy ending really possible for Umineko?

...

Let's find out. Ladies and Gentlemen, 07th Expansion presents: Umineko no Naku Koro ni. Twilight of the Golden Witch.◊

edited 27th Nov '10 7:51:44 PM by Crinias

The 50% patch of EP 7, The Requiem of the Golden Witch was just released today.

I've played only up to the Opening Theme so far, but I have to say that awesome new character is awesome. Considering who he is and for which rules he operated for, I thought I would like him a lot less.

edited 30th Nov '10 5:00:53 PM by Heatth

Got up to the second twilight of the third time loop.

Holy shit, this arc's been AMAZING so far. Man, especially Eva's discovery. That part was.... Yeah.....

You mean the 3rd game right? Yeah, this one is particularly awesome. Specially if you go through without being spoiled (there is a good number of good twists). Of the first four, this is my favorite. The 4th is also awesome, even if it has some slow parts, but the 3rd is just too good.

PS: Oh, since you are still reading right now, you may want to know that the next path of EP 7 will have a revised Epitaph. It seem new information required the Witch-Hunt to change a bit of how it was translated (which sadly probably means it is not solvable right now). I will keep an eye and post here the new translation when it comes.

edited 4th Dec '10 11:43:39 PM by Heatth

I actually kind of felt cheated with the epitath because it was impossible to solve without knowledge of Japanese.

I know what you mean. I wonder if Ryuukishi foresaw that, sinc eh made that "Dragon fight K/nights" pun. Anyway, you are actually lucky. If the new translation (hopefully a solvable one) be released soon you will, at last, be able to know it before finish EP 4.