Pokémon General Thread

what is the best competitive Bug Pokémon off all time from wolfey vgc.

As you can tell this was a hard video to get a list from. Yeesh.

Anyway

• Did you know an ash inspired team consisting of Pikachu and butterfree actually won a tournament.

• Shedinja works better in tournnanets with high level mons to check them

Anyway the top 3 are Escavilier, scizor and of course the king or queen is Volcarano.

• Escavailier is the only bug type to ever win worlds. Which is why it got third. The hilaruous thing is Ray Rizzo picked it to check Wolfey's team spefically. Which is why it's here.

• Scizor is of course great. A cool swords dancer technian sweeper. Who tbf has falleen off due to Incenroar but still had a great pedigree.
• Volcarano is the greatest bug type mon. Fantastic typing, the ability to sweep if it gets it's quiver dance off, support, 3tx.

Escavalier being on that list over Araquanid, Kleavor, or even something like Ribombee surprises me a lot. Is it much stronger in Doubles than Singles or something?

I haven't seen the video yet, but I imagine it's strength in doubles is it's power under Trick Room, a strat infrequently used in Singles.

He put it their as it's the only bug type mon to win worlds.

Hilariously that build by Ray Rizzo was spefically created to check Wolfey's trick room team.

Escavalier may had been used to win Worlds, but its importance in competitive Pokemon as a whole is minimal.

Wolfey pretty much exclusively views things from a VGC standpoint, so expecting any reference to a Pokemon's viability in singles is a fool's errand.

Playing Prism now on the suggestion of others here. Pretty good so far, although probably a bit more difficult compared to its inspirations.

With Larvitar as the starter, I picked up the Cyndaquil in that tunnel area and also managed to snag two favorites of mine in Ralts and Mareep, which should all be mainstays. Does anyone else have any suggestions for the final two slots? I definitely think I need a Water type, at least, and I’m thinking a Fighting type might be good too.

Water and Fighting? Then double up with Poliwrath!

...I don't know anything about Prism, so I have no idea if that's possible.

It's like Pokemon Yellow but with Larvitar, it's built on the Crystal rom hack engine, and has it's own region.

Fun game. Maybe one day we'll have a White rom hack with Deino as the starter.

While we’re talking, do you think they’ll ever make a mainline region without Grass/Fire/Water starters?

Edited by Lymantria on Apr 28th 2024 at 5:00:57 AM

Never. They will NEVER break the trend because of Pokemon's target audience.

Yeah, the Grass/Fire/Water combination is important for teaching new players the fundamental Elemental Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanic. If a player is too young to understand all the underlying numbers of a Pokemon, just knowing types and how they interact can still be enough to carry through most of the main game.

Also, there are no other 3 types that have the same effectiveness towards each other.

Fair enough. I don’t think they’ve ever explicitly said (in-universe) that it’s tradition to give beginning Trainers a choice of a Grass, Fire, or Water type in each region, at least among professors. But if that’s not the case, it sure is convenient that whoever gives the protagonists their starters just so happens to have three three-stage Pokémon of those types on hand every single time in the mainline games (except for Yellow and its remakes). And several NPCs start with other Pokémon, like Wally’s Ralts, just not the player in nearly all mainline games. I get that they’d be hesitant to change the usual starter pattern (except maybe if they made a mainline game for adults, which is unlikely), but if they want an in-story explanation for it, they could just say that giving out those three types is a global tradition or something.

Edited by Lymantria on Apr 28th 2024 at 5:49:39 AM

There are (Rock-Flying-Fight), but it's harder to explain than the extremely basic Fire/Water/Grass.

I'm guessing the games where you start with a Pikachu or Eevee doesn't count? :p

Fire/rock/steel, too

I know about those. I meant a whole new region that lacks Grass/Fire/Water starters to begin with. That’s probably a pipe dream at this point, but it still makes me think about why the starters in every region are the same three types in-universe. I suppose Yellow and Let’s Go give players a change from the norm without breaking the pattern entirely.

(I’m not complaining. I don’t necessarily want a mainline region without traditional starters, I’m just wondering if they’d ever do it.)

Edited by Lymantria on Apr 28th 2024 at 6:07:50 AM

@Eri:The issue is alot of Bug types are really, really bad. You don't need a long explanation for why Kyogre, rillaiboom or Incineroar is good. In fact all three previous types (water, fire, and grass) have had a solid run though VGC. But this required a ton of explanation for stuff like butterfree (ngl That Ash inspired team sounds amazing)

I think Volcarano. The number 1 is the only one people know is decent.

It being a very intuitive way to introduce someone to type strengths and weaknesses seems like pretty good reason in universe as well.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Apr 28th 2024 at 11:55:32 AM

You may be right, even if they’ve never actually said so (I think it’s more explicitly shown in the anime than in the games). I suppose it could be unspoken tradition or something, although non-rival NPCs rarely own the player’s starter options and sometimes they seem to start with other Pokémon. Maybe it’s tradition in small towns, which most mainline protagonists start off in. Note that in Sun/Moon, the player doing the Island Challenge starts off on Poni Island with Rowlet/Litten/Popplio, but Nanu apparently gives out Alolan Meowth on Ula’ula Island.

Edited by Lymantria on Apr 28th 2024 at 6:15:44 AM

Heracross has had a long competitive history before its viability started to decrease, and Mega Heracross and Mega Pinsir were really solid choices.

But yeah, VGC players are weird among competitive players of any game, in that they refuse to aknowledge environments other than that of official tournaments.

...Generally most competitive players care about the official format? I find the way a large portion of the fandom only cares about a fan-made format much weirder

Edited by Hylarn on Apr 28th 2024 at 4:33:15 AM

Smogon might get acknowledged more if Doubles was more popular. I think that's the issue, that the official vs format is mostly overlooked by the unofficial vs community. I don't blame VGC players for having an attitude.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Apr 28th 2024 at 4:37:29 AM

I mean, ask the Fighting Games Community, and them playing competitively games from the 90s. Competitive multiplayer grassroots movements are more of the norm than the exception.

And, seriously, there is a GEN I competitive scene that keeps evolving, while I've encountered people saying that mythicals cannot be played competitively because they are not VGC legal.

Edited by Eriorguez on Apr 28th 2024 at 1:56:29 PM