Waggle: Waggle

First, what do you initially think of when people use the term Waggle?

For me, people use it as the Button Mashing equivalent for motion controls and I would think it a redirect to Button Mashing. Yet here we have ranty paragraphs about games that rely on unwieldy gimmicks which I doubt anyone actually uses the term for in real life. The examples are also written in a Complaining About Shows You Don't Like manner which attracts "Oh come on, it's not that bad" natter. There might be a trope in there, but cleanup is required and it requires a new name that doesn't differ from people's general perceptions of the term.

When I hear the term "waggle" used online, it's usually meant to many any game with what the speaker sees as an unnecessary and clumsy implementation of motion controls on the parts of the developer. Most of the time when I see people use the term, there seems to be an unspoken implication that all motion controls are "waggle."

But yeah, it definitely has to deal with motion controls any time I hear it.

Waggle is side-to-side motion. I used to think of a woman's hips first when I heard the term, but now (thanks to the internet) it's the sideways swinging of the Wiimote when playing Wii games.

I don't buy bad Wii games (only ones I am pretty sure I will like), so I don't feel any negative association with the term itself. You waggle a lot in Super Mario Galaxy, and I loved it. However, in the blogs I read, there are things like "waggle fatigue," and I think it's gotten some of a negative connotation overall. Unfortunate.

Sort of on topic, the Motion Plus accessory makes the controller quite a bit more precise, and lessens game developer's need to rely on simple, canned waggle (let's hope they respond).

edited 8th Jul '10 5:16:21 PM by MoCellMan

I would move all examples to Button Mashing and expand the Button Mashing page. People hate "waggle" for the same reason they hate Button Mashing - it requires no skill whatsover to shake your controller or press the "A" button ad nauseam.

edited 8th Jul '10 5:41:20 PM by BLOODPOUCH

Because it's more likely to attract hate than neutrality, I think it best to cut it and replace it with a page for Motion Controls. It would note the strengths and weaknesses of that kind of control, but would not have the negative connotation of the other name.

If we re-write the page it should be at least mentioned that people who are dismissive of the format often deride it with the term "Waggle"

Of course. Just calling the page that invites the haters.

If we give Motion Controls a trope, shouldn't we do the same for other control methods?

If you believe that other control styles are notable, go right ahead. But the control method of "controller that has buttons which are used to control a video game" is going to sound a tad People Sit On Chairs.

^ or a lucrative patent application, back in the '70s.

I think this should be expanded to when an hardware feature is used even when it's not desirable

Example: All the FMV games that popped up on the Sega CD. The limited color-palete mean the videos were just a blurry mess and the games were innherently awful with bad production values and limited gameplay, but there was much hype extra space provided by the CD medium, and so developers made something to show it off even when it wasn't desirable. Just like how the current trope is about how Motion Control is half-assedly forced into games that don't need it because it's an "hype" feature.

edited 8th Jul '10 6:20:20 PM by Glowsquid

Back when the Nintendo64 was still new, the Analogue Stick was something that wasn't particularly common and was associatedable with certain types of games and its own tropes. Now, it would seem like it would almost be a People Sit On Chairs trope due to how standardized it is.

Wouldn't Motion Control be the same thing?

Edit: ^ Such type of implementation can be its own trope, although it'll be problematically subjective. The DS can be argued to suffer more from the trope due to the many functionalities that it had.

edited 8th Jul '10 6:23:06 PM by Meophist

That's very true actually.

BTW, we also have General Gaming Gamepads and Stock Control Settings. So let's see if those don't already cover this as well.

edited 8th Jul '10 6:37:36 PM by DragonQuestZ

Button Mashing is doing the same thing over and over and over, almost to the point of pain and/or controller destruction.

Waggle is a weird gimmicky motion that the developer thought was cool but fails miserably when you actually attempt to use it.

It's basically Motion Control done very poorly.

edited 3rd Aug '10 11:44:54 AM by Edvardelis

But they can overlap. Many parts of Red Steel 2 move so fast, you can't react fast enough, so you rely on waggle mashing. And that's even if you know how to do the other moves.

Overlap doesn't mean they're the same. If you can have Waggle without Button Mashing, or Button Mashing without waggle they should stay separate.

"Waggle is a weird gimmicky motion that the developer thought was cool but fails miserably when you actually attempt to use it."

But what makes it poor? If it's unresponsive controls, that applies to traditional controls as well.

If it's a motion that seems weird or off, that might works as a separate trope, although I've found button uses to also be weird or off.

Plus it's still Done Badly applied to motion control, so I still say we should cut it and just make a trope for motion control.

edited 3rd Aug '10 12:44:47 PM by DragonQuestZ

And I'd still say we should expand it to shoeorned hardware feature in general. You'll notice there's a section devoted to the DS's touchscreen, which isn't Motion Control at all.

I vote for rolling it in with Button Mashing, as it's the same general idea.

—R.J.

The way it's written now, it's definitely distinct from Button Mashing. And despite the name it isn't just motion controls Done Badly - there are examples of plenty of other control schemes in there as well. I'd support Glowsquid's suggestion of making this about shoehorned hardware features in general, because that seems to be what the trope's trying to get at.

Then it should have a rename. Is Square Peg Round Joystick too obscure?

Yes.

Poor Controller Setup is bland, but serviceable.

The description for Waggle distinctly states that it's for motion controls Done Badly. If some of the examples don't reflect this they need to go, that's not evidence that it should be renamed.

edited 3rd Aug '10 7:53:54 PM by Warron