Gargoyles (Disney) General Discussion

Yep, if you are unaware. This property has seen a revival not just once (through Slave Labor Graphics), but for a second time thanks to Dynamite Entertainment. Issue 7 which sees the return of Demona is due this week.

And next week we get the first issue of the spinoff miniseries Gargoyles Dark Ages which will have more than the usual 20 pages with some illustrated text stories including what Greg Weisman did briefly for Ask Greg: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/faq.php?s=threebrothers

But discussion on the non-canonical stuff from Marvel, as well as the old Disney Adventures mag will be counted for discussion.

I've been greatly enjoying the new Dynamite series. I had to get used to George Kambadais's designs for certain humans (like Elisa and Sevarius) and the first story arc was a bit uneventful. But the story kicked off from Issue 4 onwards and I feel the art has been getting better and better since.

I'm looking forward to the next issue, which is pretty soon.

I like Gargoyles and all.

But Issue 1 of the Dynamite series just felt like a "here, everybody hooked up." Maybe because I missed the previous comic series where some of them were introduced.

Edited by FOFD on Jul 4th 2023 at 9:06:36 AM

The first arc and especially the first issue suffered from introduction syndrome, but it didn't last.

Yeah, it's bit of a juggling act between trying to appeal to new readers and those who are picking off from the end of season 2 while also continuing the plot threads from the SLG run (which is getting reprinted at some point). Probably why the first three issues have some exposition with a relatively light plot.

Finally got to read Issue #7.

I can see why Greg Weisman called this a good jumping off issue since Demona's reintroduction has her catching up to the events of the comic so far while also setting up her new plot. I feel like the POV narrations keep getting stronger, and hers had a fun twist to them. I wish I didn't read about her seeking the new Three Keys to Power in the solicits, since that was probably meant to be the big reveal.

While this issue was slower than the last few, it doesn't mean the plot is stopping entirely. I liked Goliath's meeting with Tobe Crest, even though I found their whole "I understand your plight because I've been a victim of racism" to be kind of hokey and repetitive from what Elisa said a few issues ago. Still, the question of who's funding Goliath's defense comes up. I initially figured it'd be Xanatos, but he only assured it was taken care of, he never said he did it. I wonder if this is how we'll be reintroduced to the Illuminati.

Finally, Lexington gets to save the spotlight by taking down the drones to save Izaak Slaughter. I liked that Broadway still breaks any guns that he sees and him taking down all those drones was cool. I think he'll reluctantly take on Slaughter's favor one day. Though I felt bad that Brooklyn was undermined as leader.

One last thing: I appreciated the small tribute to Michael Reaves at the very end. RIP.

Hoping to make it down to get the Gargoyles stuff next week, plus a lot more.

Anyway schedule sticking we're getting not only #11 of the main series and #4 of Dark Ages in October, but a Halloween treat: https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/AUG230263

Finally caught up with my haul and especially Gargoyles.

https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/AUG230263

Enjoy some viewpoints from the clan's cybernetic member and the first bit of action from The Pack well since the episode Grief as they only got a mention in the last SLG comic.

As for Dark Ages, interesting to see not only the familiar members of the clan in their younger day, but the ones we had yet to see.

The timing of it being out is pretty good as some comment room folks bring up as Demona in the main series is plotting against the clan with Goliath being detained, while she is among them in Dark Ages while being the captive.

Issue #8

It took an interesting approach by having Coldfire narrate, especially considering her status as a gargoyle reborn as an android. I'd argue she and Coldstone are overdue for some focus since they're both underexplored despite being part of the Manhattan Clan. However, I wish there was a stronger narrative tie to the story, since it feels more like re-introducing her to readers. Still, I hope we get some focus on other underused characters like Coldstone, Katana, Gnash, and maybe even another villain or two. Oh, and poor Lexington, of course.

I think my only other disappointment with the issue was how quickly the Pack went down after their long-awaited return. Goliath vs. Wolf was fun, but Jackal and Hyena went down too easy. Maybe Goliath had some pent up anger he wanted to release, but still. The character development within Riker's was fun. I wasn't expecting the sadistic guard (Renqvist) to actually listen to reason and free Goliath to stop the Pack. Brod was pretty pragmatic and cold when Wolf threatened him. And it felt like Tony Dracon had a small sense of admiration for Goliath choosing to stay in prison. I wonder if between his recent experiences and Wolf spilling the beans about Dino means he'll start to rethink his life.

Speaking of smart moves, Izaak Slaughter puts it together how the other mob bosses tie into the recent assassination attempt, but it seems too convenient to him. Out of the mob bosses introduced in this series, he's been growing on me the most. I'm wondering if his role will help end or worsen the gang war. And Lexington and Broadway get an earful from Brooklyn for sneaking out to save his life. I feel bad for him for struggling to be a leader, but I wonder if it's even the right role for him.

Dark Ages #2

This issue is a big battle between Kenneth's (and the Wyvern Clan) against Culen's forces. Considering the importance of this event and scope of it all, I'm good with it. There's tons of great moments, from Hyppolyta going berserk on some soldiers to the battle between the Archmage and Lord Volois (who looks suspiciously like both Brother Valmont and Duval), and Lefty sort of mentoring Angel (Demona). And although I know this leads to her capture, I found her getting knocked out as she did kind of funny. My only issue with the fights is that some of the human soldiers look a bit samey and there's little distinction between them.

I really like the art elsewhere, particularly during Verity's death and Mentor's (Hudson) reaction to it. The moment is executed well in writing and visuals, though I mostly felt bad for Mentor than I felt Verity's loss. I feel it was probably too soon and it was telegraphed a bit in the previous issue, so I was expecting it. Goliath's rage at Angel's capture worked a bit better, especially considering how mild-mannered he was up to this point. I'm very impressed that Mentor can keep himself composed enough to calm him down and already has a plan.

I'm glad that the next chapter of Tale of the Three Brothers came complete out of the gate. The story has slowed down a bit, but I appreciate the more detailed storytelling. I also appreciate that the story is easier to read now than the faded writing from the previous installment. I'm interested in the confirmation that the narrator is actually Captain of the Guard/Robbie's daughter and the implications of that.

My thoughts on Issue 9:

This entire arc has been building up to this court hearing, so I'm glad we get a few elements that make it stand out from the other issues, from revealing the title a few pages later than usual to the use of double-spreads on the court room. I appreciate that we finally get a Lexington narration, although this time is via an online conversation with Amp AKA Staghart. It's a nice gimmick as we see his reactions to the case, although it does limit his perspective, so it's not as deep as the last few we've gotten. Perhaps the biggest distinction in this story is that, aside from a couple of scenes, it all takes place inside the court room. It keeps the story focused, which I appreciate.

Due to the lack of action scenes or multiple plot threads, the issue relies strongly on dialogue. Thankfully, the hearing stays interesting, whether it's the clashes between Tobe Crest and Margot Yale or each witness testimony. Some of these sections are small, such as John Castaway's input or the physician's examination. The ones I found most interesting involved Yale questioning Goliath's motives (and testing his patience) and the testimony from Renqvist and Halcyon Renard. The former because despite being set-up as a potential ally, Yale expertly used his clutching of the shock collar's remote to show that he still feared him. The latter reveals that Renard's health seems to be worsening and may not be long for this world. More importantly, it also reveals he funded the Gargoyle Task Force's weapons and may had something to do with Goliath's arrest and trial. We still don't know all the details, but I'm surprised he participated in something so underhanded.

The ending didn't surprise me, but it still seemed like a good note to end on: Elisa participating as a witness, even after Goliath's refusal to put her on risk. This should be big, since revealing that she worked with the gargoyles on vigilante outings could endanger her job and potentially release criminals. Will this be how Tony Dracon and Brod get out? And the social stigma as well if the full details of her relationship with Goliath are out. I should point out that I loved that Elisa's middle name was Nichelle. A nice nod to the late Nichelle Nichols, who portrayed Uhura on Star Trek and voiced her mom in this show.

Sidenote, Lefty is so Demona's biological father. No mistaking that red hair.

I thought so too, but apparently he's supposed to be her biological older brother.

I read issue 3 of Dark Ages. Mentor and Goliath rescuing Angel happens surprisingly fast and is probably the most action-packed part of the issue. Even though this comic has been criticized for lacking any blood, I think it sells Mentor and Goliath as credible threats to King Culen and his men. Goliath's final line to Malcolm is stone cold. Also, what a difference we have where the main series currently portrays a chained Goliath, while in this issue, he struggles but greatly succeeds in breaking Angel's chains. Drew Moss and Marina Pignedoli do a fantastic job with this whole sequence.

Angel also seems rattled by the events and it's initially odd to see her so vulnerable and naive. However, this is definitely one of the formative moments that will lead her to become the Demona we know and love. The Archmage also seems friendly towards the clan at first, but his blatant manipulation of Angel starts to reveal his true nature. I wonder about where she got her golden crown and why it's so important to her that she'd keep it so close to her.

We also get a Wind Ceremony, which is essentially a gargoyle funeral. It was a touching scene that also provided with worldbuilding on an aspect we hadn't seen before in the series. I also thought it was nice that Robbie prioritized honoring the dead over Kenneth's coronation. It shows how much closer he is to the gargoyles than humans. And we finally meet the narrator of the "Three Brothers" story segments, Alesand. I'm particularly curious about her fate since the show didn't even hint that the Captain of the Guard had a daughter. Speaking of "Three Brothers", this month's installment was an okay story, but I was more impressed by Katherine standing up to Indulf.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/greg-weisman-pasquale-qualanos-demona-focused-gargoyles-quest/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Upcoming spin off about Demona which I guess the article meant to say comes out January 2024, not 2023.

Future details could prove me wrong, but I feel like this might be another 12-issue arc like "Here in Manhattan" instead of a spin-off. I've been told that Dynamite has this tendency of treating arcs as their own comic runs.

Anyways, at least we're getting more stories once Dark Ages wraps up. And since the show has its 30th anniversary next year, we'll probably get more stuff too.

It might interest you all to know they’re making a live action series based on the show. See the Hollywood Reporter: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/gargoyles-live-action-tv-show-reboot-1235342849/

I hope it's good, but it's not giving me much hope that Greg Weisman isn't involved in any way, the seemingly lack of a Manhattan Clan, and the fact that it's live action at all.

Anyway, Gargoyles Halloween Special ended up being a rather cute affair. I was already expecting it to be considering Nashville is the protagonist and the plot itself, but it reminded me a lot of the show's one-off adventures. It's a good reminder that the show could also appeal to kids, and I think you need breather stories like this to really explore how much the world has changed when you don't have to progress a story arc.

I enjoyed that we not only got Gnash as the protagonist, but that we also got some good time with Katana and Fu-Dog. Since their introduction, we've only gotten bits and pieces from them, so this was strongly needed. I thought it was nice that Gnash already made friends faster than the clan elders did. I also like the contrast between the overconfidence he shows in front of his parents and his insecurity when trying to hide his secret from his new friends.

I was surprised at how John Castaway and the Quarrymen came off as this time. Before, they were a bit pragmatic and seemed like they could be recurring foes. However, yeah, they were humiliated pretty badly. No Xanatos tag or anything. I was definitely surprised that Castaway was outright arrested. I wonder if he'll worm his way out soon or if there's going to be a leadership change. In a way, their call for open violence feels truer to how hate groups work today. It has the consequence of making them appear as less impressive villains, but considering the scale of the story, that's not really needed for now. The helmets don't look as menacing as the hoods, but they are more practical.

The rest of the clan had some amusing moments. I can't place what everyone dressed as besides Gnash as Blackbeard and Elisa as Alice. Interesting that something happens in the main series that causes the gargoyles to be seen as popular celebrities. I wonder if this is from the hearing alone or if they'll have a big heroic moment involving Dino and the gang war. The "witch" from "Eye of the Beholder" returns to reunite with Goliath and flirt a bit with Lex. I'm glad we're getting more queer characters in canon beyond just Lex. Speaking of, I hope he gets to visit Staghart in Gargoyles Quest. I wonder where Coldstone and Coldfire are.

Finally, I was amused by Gnash revealing that Blackbeard was a gargoyle, and a "nasty" one too. It only makes me want a Timedancer spin-off more.

Issue 10 was certainly eventful. I already knew how the hearing was going to turn out due to the Halloween Special, but Greg Weisman and George Kambadais know how to give this moment some weight. I especially loved the spread with all of the characters watching the trial. It's an inventive way of showing it without having a lot of panels of everyone watching it via TV.

I called it on Katana being the next focus point, and it gives us a brief look into her past and her personality as someone who is cautious over those she loves. I was amused by the peek we got of her Timedancer adventures and her and Brooklyn meeting the Three Musketeers. Between this and the Blackbeard tease, I'd be surprised if we don't get a Timedancer spin-off sometime in 2024.

The big highlight for me wasn't even the ruling or anything after, but Elisa admitting her role of Goliath to not just the court but to entire world. That takes a lot of guts, especially when the court hasn't even decided if he's even sapient. It also conclude her mini-character arc where she keeps hiding her relationship and got called out on it by Matt. Unfortunately, Margot also pointed out how this could impact her career. We saw her arrest John Castaway like nothing in the Halloween Special, but I hope that there's some consequences to her actions, admirable as they are.

And it turns out that the judge was bribed by Xanatos. I honestly missed a good Xanatos Tag, although this one was more to reveal why the judge ruled in Goliath's favor rather than another scheme (that we know of). It stains the victory a bit, but it also places it in a morally grey area. Who knows if the judge was going to rule in favor of Goliath without the bribe, but him pointing out the drawbacks signs towards "no". It reminds me of Young Justice where M'gann and Zatanna helped Artemis heal from her grief with some, um, questionable methods. And just like I wonder if Artemis will ever find out the truth, I also wonder if Goliath or anyone else will ever find out about Xanatos's role. Also, is Xanatos Tobe Crest's employer or is there someone else involved with that?

All in all, this was an excellent issue and probably my favorite yet. We only got two issues left and I'm very curious how it'll all end.

Dark Ages #4 is a more relaxing affair after how intense things got in the previous issue. It's more about following the construction of Castle Wyvern and setting things up for the final couple of issues. As such, the narrative mostly follows Alesand as she explores the construction, sees the eggs, and makes some young friends. Goliath and Mentor make some brief appearances, and Robbie is mostly there to guide Alesand and get his promotion to Captain of the Guard from Malcolm.

We also briefly see some other perspectives, of course. Desdemona begins to learn how to become a priestess from Sacrifice (the gargoyle who headed the Wind Ceremony from the previous issue), while Angel learns to read from the Archmage. I liked the parallel between these two, especially the kind Sacrifice's "We have much work to do" versus the Archmage's condescending "You have much work to do". A simple, but impactful change.

Alesand's quick friendship with the youngest gargoyles (Brooklyn/Caesar, Lexington/Alexander, Broadway/Charlemagne, and Antiope) were heart-warming and sweet. She's very quick to embrace the gargoyles, a sharp contrast to the legal proceedings in the main series and the Quarrymen shenanigans in the Halloween Special. Unfortunately, I don't foresee a happy ending in sight for Alesand and Antiope, between both of their absences in the show's canon before this comic and the Captain's cynical, jaded nature by the time we meet him in the show.

More importantly, Alesand's plot leads to the unexpected arrival of the traveling players, the Light-Bringers. I was very surprised to see this early incarnation of the Illuminati show up. I knew they were alluded to in "The Tale of the Three Brothers" segments at the end of the issues, but I didn't think we'd see the beginning of those section in context to this story. We get earlier incarnations of Peredeur, Blanchefleur, and Shari (who is telling the "Three Brothers" tale too), as well as a few new characters. Plus, Brother Valdez sure acts weird around them. I wonder if he's connected to Lord Valois from earlier in the story. Or Brother Valmont. Or Duval.

My only small disappointment (and it's nothing wrong with the issue itself) is that the solicit and some of the covers made it seem like the dragon would finally show up. I don't mind waiting more, but just a small nitpick.

Gargoyles #11 came out earlier than expected on Kindle before being removed. I'll keep most of the review with spoiler tags, but all I'll say is that we got another case of misleading cover and plot synopsis. I wonder if the ceremony for Broadway and Angela will even happen in this arc.

The main plot with the Brooklyn/Broadway/Lexington trio comes to a head when they learn from Antoinette all about Dino's schemes, from his attempted assassination of Tony and Tomas to his kidnapping of Peter and Rosaria. Along with Gnash (this issue's narrator), they rescue the young lovers, fight Dino and his goons, and bond in the process. I'll be honest, while I like many ideas here (the trio vs. the fake trio) I felt it was rather rushed. The exo-suit goons were defeated too easily and Gnash's enthusiasm at the trio's reunion felt unearned and a tad cheesy. I enjoyed Brooklyn seemingly hesitating to act only to quickly glide to the occasion. It was good character growth and the fake-out was executed well.

Meanwhile, Elisa is getting chewed out by Chavez for secretly conducting policework with Goliath's help. I feel mixed on this because while I like that there's some consequences to Elisa's actions and confession, it already feels like Chavez is not as upset as she should be and is more worried about appearances to higher-ups. And from what we see in Halloween Special, she'll still be a cop, so whatever Matt proposes might just bring things to status quo. Still, I respect Elisa for not making up excuses and Matt for confessing he knew too and taking his share of blame.

Finally, Goliath joins Xanatos, Fox, and everyone in Halcyon Renard's death bed, where he says his good-byes and passes his last will. Fox and Alex (via Vogel) getting parts of his company isn't surprising, but the endgame of Renard's scheme being Goliath as a wealthy citizen and Alex's moral guardian definitely is. This was my favorite part of the issue, full of surprises and pathos. It opens up new story paths for Goliath for sure. I was also amused by Xanatos's reaction to the news. And while I called Gnash's declaration cheesy early, I forgive it a bit due to its juxtaposition with Renard's death

Kambadais's art sadly takes a hit in this issue. Chavez didn't look like herself much and the panel with the multiple phone calls at once is very confusing to read the first time. It doesn't help that the issue feels a bit crammed and rushed. My highlight is the particularly sinister Dino in the penultimate page where he declares his last play to take over New York by force.

Secret message is now: AIM TRUE MY NY.

Edited by GamerSlyRatchet on Dec 24th 2023 at 3:21:06 AM

For the 30th anniversary of the series, Dynamite is launching a Kickstarter to release the out-of-print Marvel and Slave Labor Graphics Gargoyles comics. They come in three volumes and include paperback, hardcover, signed hardcover and deluxe hardcover.

They already met their goal within three hours. I'll likely get the regular hardcovers myself, though I wish they had better covers for those.

It's nice to see Renard reaffirming in his last moments that he was a true friend of Goliath despite everything he put Goliath through.

He doesn't quite get around to accepting Xanatos of course, but he at least dies knowing he can trust Xanatos to be a good husband and father to Fox and Alex. Speaking of Fox, he also corrects himself and addresses her as her preferred name "Fox" even after she says it's okay to call her "Janine".

Then there's his last meeting with Titania / Anastasia. She assures him that the time she spent with him as Anastasia wasn't a lie and that she did love him.

Halcyon Renard died surrounded by the people he loved (and one he didn't love but came to sort of grudgingly respect).

Edited by M84 on Jan 11th 2024 at 11:27:09 PM

Incidentally due to solicitations that came out before cancelations being published in Marvel Visions, someone was able to share plans for the Marvel title including the one that made it to the SLG books:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gargoyles/comments/160lzjn/marvel_comics_run_unpublished_issue_descriptions/

Pretty cool stuff. I see the Marvel comics were close to introducing the Quarrymen. Also, one of those plotlines sounds a bit similar to "Broadway Goes Hollywood".

In other news, according to this interview Dynamite Comics did with Greg Weisman, there's going to be another 12-issue story arc after Gargoyles Quest. Weisman also said in another interview it's basically a relaunching.

Dark Ages #5 released early a while back on digital, but I wanted to wait for the physical version this time before talking about it.

This was an excellent issue that balanced so much, yet so seamlessly, from Angel and Desdemona continuing their education with their respective mentors to the Light-Bringers and Brother Valdez seeming more suspicious, and now the rooklings and Alesand having an adventure underneath Wyvern Hill.

I have to say I was impressed with the first appearance of a dragon in the show's world. Drew Moss's spread reveal was great, especially with how small the children are in comparison. I'm glad I waited until the paper comic to enjoy that. Interesting that he's close species-wise to the gargoyles, even having his own version of stone sleep and considering the clan above his "cousins". He seems to share Angel's future bitterness towards humans, though, and flies off in a fury.

The trio as children are endearing, but I'm curious as to how Antiope knew so much about the dragon, the ghost cage, and the cave in general. And there's some fun character bits too, like Alexander's curiosity with the catapult, Mentor's growing friendship with Malcolm, and Angel's reading lessons. "The Scorpion and the Frog" certainly describes her future relationships, while "Bell the Cat" says a lot about how she sees herself and her future mission to eradicate humans.

My only problem with the issue is that the story segment for The Tale of the Three Brothers wasn't as interesting, but it's a minor thing. Overall, I can't believe this mini-series is about to end. I wish it had lasted at least another arc, but I've been enjoying my time with it.

Well, the next Disney Afternoon Adventures collection is due in December:

https://www.amazon.com/Darkwing-Duck-Marinated-Afternoon-Adventures/dp/1683969898/

Also catching up having gotten Volume 2 and 3 so far, plus the One Saturday Morning Adventures which if anyone else has it or any of such stories, feel free to talk about them here too.

That one is pretty nice too as heck we got some Buzz Lightyear of Star Command stories which I'm hoping shows that the cartoon isn't off the table.

Also didn't know they had stories from The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. So yeah my first Pooh comics.😁

Edited by Antiyonder on Mar 6th 2024 at 6:47:50 AM