To-do list:
- Clean up wicks that still do not fit the revised definition (the original definition of casting choices that feel wrong was expanded to cover cases that were initially well received pre-release). This does not allow on-page examples, so only wicks need to be looked at in this case. Note that redirects other than the main WTH, Casting Agency? redirect (the old name) have wicks of their own (more specifically, What The Hell Casting Agency and WTF Casting Agency).
- 16 wicks that correctly use the trope (Actor was cast as a role many thought they didn't fit very well)
- 16 wicks that were just complaining (Good actor was cast in bad product! How could they accept?)
- 14 wicks that lacked the context (Actor, of all people, as character)
- 4 wicks that feel all like some kind of misuse (one is "This show's dub was badly directed and they had to redub it after complaints", one is a generic complaint for the lack of ethnic voice actor in a cast, one is complaining because the English voice cast reuses some voice talent from the seasons before on different characters and the fourth is "this deliberate Stylistic Suck web video deliberately casts men in female roles")
The usage of this trope to complain, by the way, it's very commonly found in So Bad, It's Horrible examples, where it's often used to whine how this or that horrible media completely wastes the talent of its cast as if for example Rob Paulsen was some kind of deity who committed an unforgivable sin by voicing the titular characters of both the Bubsy pilot and Coconut Fred's Fruit Salad Island, the drama!
What to do? My main ideas are either making it Flame Bait or move on Darth Wiki, other ideas?
Wick check:
Wick check for WTH, Casting Agency? to control if it has too much gushing or misuse.Wicks: 50/50
- YMMV.The Angry Birds Movie: Downplayed with Terrence: while it's strange that Sean Penn was chosen to play him, seeing as he's The Quiet One, he's been noted as having anger issues of his own, so the jokes work on another level.
- YMMV.Anna Karenina: Several reviews for the 2012 film criticized Aaron Taylor-Johnson's portrayal of Count Alexei Kirillovich Vronsky, noting that he seemed out of place in comparison to Keira Knightley and Jude Law.
- YMMV.Argo: Though Ben Affleck’s performance was hailed by critics for his realistic demeanor as a spy, the real Tony Mendez had dark skin, dark hair, was average height, had ordinary features, and a normal build. In short he could blend in almost anywhere in the world as the kind of person nobody would notice. Ben Affleck is quite tall and very handsome, the kind of person that easily sticks out in a crowd.
- YMMV.Batman 1989: Michael Keaton so thoroughly proved the naysayers wrong that, in hindsight, it's hard to remember just how bizarre it seemed at the time to cast a famously mild, unimposing comedic actor as a grim, Frank Miller-inspired version of Batman. Thousands of fans wrote letters to Warner Bros. protesting the choice before the movie's release, and Keaton himself initially thought that his being cast for the part meant that the film would be taking its cues from the TV series.
- YMMV.Batwoman 2019: A minor example; no one ever expected Rachel Maddow to act (even if merely as a radio host) in a superhero TV show, but it's mostly because she's a news personality/talking head first and foremost.
- YMMV.Black Lightning 2018: Some fans of Grace Choi have taken issue with the fact that her actress is much less muscular than her comic counterpart, pointing out that women, and especially Asian women, usually aren't allowed to have that body type in media.
- YMMV.Bonekickers: The final episode casts Dexter Fletcher, best known for his Cockney geezer persona, as a country gent.
- YMMV.Castle In The Sky: While the English dub is widely regarded as being very good, many fans felt James Van Der Beek and Anna Paquin to be ill-fitting choices for Pazu and Sheeta, respectively, with the most common criticism being that their performances make them sound more like teenagers/young adults, even though they were intended to be kids in the original Japanese version and the Streamline dub.
- YMMV.A Discovery Of Witches: With Trystan Gravelle, who played the role in Seasons 1 and 2, unavailable to return as Baldwin Montclair for Season 3, he is Other Darrined with Peter Mc Donald, who looks nothing like him and is noticeably older, and gray-haired. More than one viewer wondered who he was supposed to be.
- YMMV.A Fairly Odd Movie Grow Up Timmy Turner: Most glaringly casting Daniella Monet to play a conventionally attractive, glasses-less, adult Tootie.
- YMMV.Home 2015: Rihanna's voice really does not fit a character that's intended to be a young teen; Rihanna was in her late twenties at the time and didn't make much effort to make her voice sound younger, while Tip is supposed to be fourteen. That said, some people were still won over by her performance regardless.
- YMMV.Interview With The Vampire: Anne Rice took out full page newspaper ads criticizing the choice to cast Tom Cruise as Lestat. She thought he was too short and didn't have the ability to play someone aristocratic. She had originally envisioned Rutger Hauer or Julian Sands in the part. Once she saw the film, however, she did a full 180.
- YMMV.King Kong 2005: Jack Black, an almost exclusively comedic actor, in the serious role of Carl Denham, though his performance is enjoyed by some.
- YMMV.A Midsummer Nights Dream 1935: The only issue here is that these two subbullets are repeated verbatim on the page for the original opera
- Mickey Rooney as Puck was criticised for favoring Box Office clout over acting ability, and to this day there are debates over whether he was atrociously miscast, tolerable or good in the role.
- Dick Powell viewed his own performance this way and asked to be taken off the film - even admitting to not knowing what any of his lines meant as he said them. His performance is seen in a better light than Mickey Rooney's however.
- YMMV.Pippi Longstocking: Astrid Lindgren was not happy with the 1949 film partially due to nine-year-old Pippi Longstocking being played by then-26-year-old Viveca Serlachius.
- YMMV.Bad Ass: One wonders why would you cast a known B-movie actor like Ron Perlman as a corrupt politician who is barely in the film and who never once encounters the Danny Trejo character.
- YMMV.Balto: Phil Collins as a couple of comic relief polar bears who never even sing.
- YMMV.Bands On The Run: Cristina Vee, of all people, is in this movie.
- YMMV.Black Rage: An albino black guy played by a white actor... who still shows very European features.
- YMMV.Brother Bear 2: Would it have killed the filmmakers to cast an actor who could at least closely imitate Joaquin Phoenix, instead of somebody with a completely different-sounding voice? Would it have killed the troper to write a decently written post, instead of a snarky complaint that feels out of place?
- YMMV.Bye Bye Birdie: From the 1995 TV movie: Why in the world did they cast Jason Alexander as Albert Peterson (a role originated by Dick Van Dyke) when he's nowhere near as charming? Tellingly, he expected to land the role of Kim's father instead.
- YMMV.Delgo: Almost the entirety of its hugely overqualified cast, but especially Burt Reynolds, Anne Bancroft, and Eric Idle. This is also a ZCE
- YMMV.Fat Slags: Dolph Lundgren, Jerry O'Connell, John Thomson, Angus Deayton, Hugh Dennis, Anthony Head, and Naomi Campbell all appear in this movie... somehow.
- YMMV.Freddie As FRO 7: We'd give anything within reason to hear the reasons Grace Jones, Ben Kingsley, John Sessions, Jonathan Pryce and James Earl Jones worked on this. Probably the usual.
- YMMV.G Force: Penélope Cruz is in this low-brow family film with talking guinea pigs? and so is Nicolas Cage?!
- YMMV.The Groovenians: Vincent Gallo, Paul Reubens, Dennis Hopper, Ru Paul and the daughter of Robert De Niro all have voiced roles.
- And what on earth is such an incredibly talented guy like Jeff Bennett doing in this pilot?
- YMMV.Happy Feet: Guess who's doing those impressions of Marilyn Monroe and Elvis Presley! Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman, that's who!
- YMMV.Happy Feet Two: Brad Pitt and Matt Damon as the comedy relief shrimp? You heard that right! What's with the Happy Feet examples and this quiz show-esque snarkapalooza in the examples?
- YMMV.Mr Magoo: Leslie Nielsen in the live-action movie, where he's clearly giving it his all and while he looks the part, it's quite painful to see such a respected actor given such mediocre material.
- YMMV.Street Fighter The Legend Of Chun Li: Seriously, Taboo as Vega?
- YMMV.Avengers Assemble: Adrian Pasdar being cast as Iron Man... again.
- YMMV.Bratz: Jon Voight as the school principal. There's also a justifying subbullet right underneath that goes like "he's there only because he's the godfather of one of the lead actresses
- YMMV.Bright Lights Big City: Michael J. Fox as a drug and alcohol addict.
- YMMV.Cat Dog: The final episode finally introduced us to the pair's parents. Their father is a frog with a human nose... played by Billy Bob Thornton.
- YMMV.Code Lyoko Evolution: Depending which part of the fanbase you ask when it comes to the main actors.
- YMMV.Conan The Destroyer: The Queen asks Wilt Chamberlain to preserve a girl's virginity. The fact that he had to be a eunuch to do it makes it doubly funny.
- YMMV.Fillmore: Getting Jeff Probst, of all people, to voice Raycliff.
- YMMV.The Flintstones: A bigger "WTH" goes to Elizabeth Taylor as Wilma's mother.
- YMMV.Im A Singer: Most fans of the show did a Flat "What" when Ok Joo-Hyun was cast.
- YMMV.Its A Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie: Some took issue with Whoopi Goldberg as God.
- YMMV.Nutty Professor II The Klumps: Janet Jackson as not only a professor, but the result of two rocket scientists.
- YMMV.Paint Your Wagon: Okay, the cast would've been okay if it was just a Western, but it was a musical!
- YMMV.A Royal Night Out: Some people had this reaction to Rupert Everett getting cast as King George.
- YMMV.A Troll In Central Park: Jonathan Pryce, Hayley Mills and Cloris Leachman. Already blanked out
- YMMV.AICO Incarnation: The English and Brazilian Portuguese dubs became infamous for its poor acting and directing, and it makes the viewers wonder what Netflix was thinking when they chose a different studio to have the dub done. Both dubs were done in different locations than usual, the English dub was produced in Florida, and the Portuguese one was produced in Southern Brazil, contrary to the usual regions of São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. Jason Kesser, Kazuki's English VA, later pointed out that Netflix used only the first takes of the dub despite doing their best to perfect it. Quite a few voice actors in the first dub were Spanish-language actors (and Brazil-based Alex Alvarez Neto, who voiced Yuya Kanzaki) who have never done an English dub before in anime. Eventually, Netflix took the hint and a brand new English dub was produced by Bang Zoom! Entertainment, but the same didn't happen in the Brazilian dub. This is about a dub as a whole and not about a specific casting of certain characters
- YMMV.Brother Bear: Admittedly, the actors that the filmmakers cast turned in superb performances, but given that this story is based on proto-Indigenous lore, it arguably would have made more sense — and lent a shred of authenticity — if they cast Indigenous (preferably Alaskan Native) actors for the human characters, in both the original film and the sequel. This is more a generic complaint on everything than anything else
- YMMV.Digimon Frontier: Occasionally, the dub can get weird with this, likely as an aftereffect of Saban's demise and Disney's treatment of the franchise as a burden. Snimon sounds like Myotismon from Adventure, Cherubimon like Leomon from the same, and a Toucanmon and Mushroomon sound like they're channeling Kazu from Tamers and Davis from Adventure 02, respectively. Then there's Lucemon sounding like Izzy/Koushiro's dub voice. This is complaining about... the voice cast reusing some people from the earlier series?
- YMMV.Harry Potter And The Dark Lord Waldemart: Hermione is (badly) played by a guy, as is Umbridge. This is presumably a joke. Judging by everything else on the page, this is supposed to be a Stylistic Suck product so it feels sort of misused
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 8th 2023 at 2:36:54 PM
I down voted since this trope often ends up fine when the work comes out. (As in the reaction dies down or is reversed.).
As is the audience alienating seems to imply it always stays disliked.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Audience Alienating Casting sounds like an actor's involvement in a production specifically turned people away from viewing a work entirely (which is something that's not even mentioned in the description).
It's not even true. A single miscast won't cause people to not go see a work.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."I unhooked the crowner so we can gather more name suggestions. This appears to have been premature.
I'm thinking we should throw out everything that was previously suggested and start from scratch with names.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 12:32:37 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Pre-unhook, I also downvoted the snowclone because I worry it'll cause decay for the entire "audience alienating" phrase, and it'll become associated with the exact thing all these renamed tropes were trying to avoid. Plus, even well-received works can include bad casting and not turn audiences away.
I do want a name that focuses on audience reaction in some way, though. What about Miscast Backlash?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Miscast Actor had a negative ratio, so I'm not sure if Miscast Backlash would do any better, especially because it could potentially sound like the backlash is from the actor (similarly to how Creator Backlash is from the creator).
I'll still put it on a new crowner once it's time; I'm just giving my own thoughts this time instead of making a mod statement. I'm not shooting it down. (I'm omitting every suggestion that was put on the previous crowner, though.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 12:36:17 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.We have Viewer Gender Confusion for audiences who mistake the gender of a character in a work. Maybe we could do something like Viewer Casting Confusion?
Trust no one.I'm not sure if that would work since Audience Reactions like Viewer Gender Confusion and Viewer Name Confusion aren't similar to WTH, Casting Agency? (since they involve viewers being thrown off instead the work receiving backlash), but maybe we could combine the wording of the two most recent suggestions into Viewer Casting Backlash. Maybe Casting Backlash would work as well (and maybe Miscast Backlash would work now that I've thought about it a bit more), since Critical Backlash also involves backlash from the audience (except it involves backlash toward critics instead of creators).
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 12:53:48 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I like the latter.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallWhat about Questionable Casting Choice?
Trust no one.I'm not sure if that would avoid misuse, though. I do like Controversial Casting Choice (or simply Controversial Casting) because it places focus on fan reaction with the word "controversy." I do worry it may invite any example of an actor Overshadowed by Controversy though.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.I'd prefer Controversial Casting over Controversial Casting Choice.
Edit: Maybe Casting Controversy would work as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 1:32:48 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Yeah, 'controversial' sounds ripe for 'why would you give a bigot/abuser/etc work', not 'I think this actor is a bad fit'.
I like Confusing Casting Choice, fwiw. It's not overtly inflammatory and doesn't implicitly exclude cases where the casting made sense after seeing the work.
Spitballing: Perceived Miscast?
Edited by Synchronicity on May 10th 2023 at 1:41:16 PM
Perceived Miscast or Perceived Miscasting might work. Confusing Casting Choice had a negative ratio on the scrapped crowner, so I'm hesitant to put it back on the table (as I said when I unhooked the scrapped crowner, I'm thinking we should throw out everything that was suggested prior to that crowner and start from scratch with names).
Edit: I think Questionable Casting Choice or Questionable Casting might work better. Questionable Casting is still alliterative if you go by how the letters sound instead of how they're written.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 1:53:33 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.CCC has had additional discussion in support of it, so a crowner vote for it may not go the same way.
Fair enough.
As for variants on that phrasing, what about Confusing Casting or Casting Confusion?
Edit: Perplexing Casting Choice was suggested early on, but was accidentally omitted from the draft for the now-scrapped crowner.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 10th 2023 at 2:29:18 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I also like the idea of Confusing Casting Choice the best.
"Controversial" might bring controversies about the actor rather than about their casting, "backlash" may give an unnecessarily negative feeling, and "alienating" implies the audience has to be driven away from the project because of the casting rather than initially put off, which many examples from this thread (such as how Chris Pratt's Mario was mocked by the internet and yet the film still became one of the most profitable animations of all time) prove that it doesn't always have to be the case.
Edited by good-morning on May 10th 2023 at 6:37:14 AM
oh hey how are you doing?I'd really like Perceived Miscast (or a variant thereof). Miscasting is the subject of the article, and the world "Perceived" easily denotes its YMMV status.
I hooked a crowner because it's been two days since the name suggestions were still ongoing, and I think we have enough this time now that the name suggestions have slowed down and stabilized.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 12th 2023 at 10:35:49 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Calling in favor of Questionable Casting, with Confusing Casting Choice being a redirect. I'll turn both into redirects in case the description needs to be sandboxed, since we agreed to broaden the definition a bit.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Made Sandbox.Questionable Casting as a starting point. The fact that this doesn't allow on-page examples means the description is the only part of the page that needs to be changed, with wicks covering the rest of the work.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Wait, but hasn't Confusing Casting Choice received more votes? Not protesting, I just got confused.
oh hey how are you doing?In plain numbers, yes. But if you looks at the ratio of to , QC is higher.
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Crown Description:
Consensus was to rename WTH Casting Agency and expand it to include cases where the casting was initially received OK but then considered the weak link post release. What should WTH Casting Agency's new name be?
Which is another reason to not be a fan of it. :P
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.