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    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by Jalpo 99.

True Art Is Incomprehensible is defined as Art should be impossible for ordinary people to understand. That's from the Laconic entry for it, which was a lot more concise than the main page for it at the moment. The main page was declared No On-Page Examples and locked after it kept attracting complaining in the description. What's left of the page is a single sentence stub that fails the number one rule about tropes, describing it in detail.

The wick check shows that locking the page as a single sentence stub was the wrong call.

Summary of Wick Checks Are Incomprehensible

  • 4/74 were correct per the laconic descripiton... if you can call it that. (5.4%)
  • 18/74 still consisted of complaining in some form, which was what the example sectionectomy wanted to avoid. (24.32%)
  • 7/74 were redundant with another Audience Reaction in some way. (9.45%)
  • 8/74 were misplaced In-Universe wicks. (10.84%)
  • 28/74 were zero context examples or potholes. (37.83%)
  • 9/74 were multiple cases or unclear. (12.16%)

Locking the page as a single sentence stub only attracted more ZCEs or complaining off-page, as it doesn't give a proper explanation of what the trope is. I don't think this can be saved by expanding the definition when looking at the history of editors using it to complain about artists they don't like. When this trope was tagged In-Universe on work pages, I found them to be neutral. There are still misplaced wicks in YMMV though. So we have to look at other options.

Possible Solutions

I'll also accept any other solutions not listed.

Wick check:

True Art Is Incomprehensible received an example sectionectomy and the main page locked after people kept rewriting the description to complain about artists they don't like. However, what was left on the main page is a single sentence stub with a bunch of sublinks that leaves it prone to misuse due to the vague description. This wick check will be using the Laconic entry as the definitionLaconic description , to see if the example lockout worked.

Checking 75/74 Wicks.

    open/close all folders 
    Correct with neutral writing per Laconic description 4/ 74 5.4% 
  • YMMV.Braid
    • The game initially follows a very simple premise, in which the princess likes you and you have to save her. Later chapters make the narrative much more confusing by implying that she is actually either a victim of Tim's stalking, a representation of oppressed or desired women everywhere, a constellation or an atomic bomb.
    • Jonathan Blow has gone on record saying that you can't take one element of Braid and say that that's what the game's all about. He even said that he was more trying to share "a set of feelings and situations" than a story. The first example is correct, but the second example could be placed in Trivia.Braid under Word of God instead.
  • YMMV.Easy Rider
    • After a preview screening, Columbia Pictures' chief executive Leo Jaffe stood up, hailing, "I don't know what the fuck this picture means, but I know we're going to make a fuck of a lot of money." Correct, and properly describes an example of the audience reaction.
  • YMMV.Hackers
    • More straightforward than most; the abstracted visual depictions of hacking are meant to be from the perspective of the hackers, as a way to illustrate the way the characters in the movie interpret what would otherwise be boring, uninterrupted lines of programming that most audiences would find dull. The blocky grid that houses the Garbage file was chosen to evoke the image of New York's city streets and buildings to suggest connections and locations as the characters relate them to hacking. Compare to TRON's visualization of the interior of a computer via The Grid. The city grid to circuit board transitions also hearken back to Koyaanisqatsi. Correct, and properly defines how it is an example according to the Laconic description.
  • YMMV.Talking Heads
    • "I Zimbra" from Fear of Music was designed to be the musical equivalent of Dada. All of the words used are completely gibberish that don't translate to anything, with the marvel of the song being how well the nonsensical lyrics coagulate into an actually enjoyable listen. Correct, though it looks to be gushing.
    Complaining 18/ 74 24.3% 
  • YMMV.AFI
    • Try to figure out what their short film Clandestine is about. Just try. Appears to be a potshot. There is also a commented out wick of True Art Is Angsty on the page.
  • YMMV.Can
    • God knows what "Peking O" and "Aumgn" are supposed to mean, musically or otherwise. See also the Nightmare Fuel page. Appears to be a potshot towards the creator.Nightmare Fuel citations in question 
  • YMMV.Can You See The Words
    • Come on, she's an art student. The plotless first few weeks of the blog basically run on this trope. Potshot towards the creator of the work, which was why the main page for this trope got locked.
  • YMMV.David Sylvian
    • This is the general consensus about his album Manafon, which is truly divisive. Some consider it a masterpiece, others consider it pretentious noise. Mentions use of the trope as complaining.
  • YMMV.Empire 1964
    • Pretty hard to say if it even is art, at this point... Very likely that the YMMV page for this work was only made to add this example to complain, as this is the only example listed on that subpage.
  • YMMV.Final Fantasy
    • As the series progressed, plots became increasingly complex and convoluted... and the individual games got more and more critical praise. VII is considered one of the greatest games of all time, nevermind that its plot is very confusing and was not translated very well to boot. Subverted with some later games; critics and fans have begun to single out poor and confusing plotlines as a weakness of the series. While neutral, it mentions audiences complaining about the appearance of this trope.
  • YMMV.Fur Fighters
    • The Quackenheim Museum which is literally full of pretentious as hell art, as well as some blatant egocentrism from General Viggo. Potshot towards the creator of the work.
  • YMMV.The Green Elephant
    • Definitely one of the most bizarre movies you'll ever see. Appears to be a Take That! to the creator.
  • YMMV.Hard To Be A God
    • One part of the problem with German's adaptation. Even setting aside the nauseating level of naturalism, it's very hard to make sense of what is going on. Only consists of complaining.
  • YMMV.House S 5 E 03 Adverse Events
    • Both Dr. House and Dr. Taub regard the patient as an artist without talent after reviewing a selection of his paintings. The visual agnosia doesn't make the patient Giftedly Bad, it just impairs his ability to paint people and landscapes in a representational manner. When he's not afflicted by the agnosia, the patient's paintings can be described as competent, and good enough that someone would plausibly hire him to paint a portrait. So maybe House and Taub think Brandon's paintings are too commercial. True Art needs to look original, and so representational art is not true art because it looks like things that already exist. YMMV page likely made just to insert this. It starts out neutral, but the last two sentences are subjective.
  • YMMV.Killer 7
    • No need to explain that. Likely a potshot towards the creator. Also a ZCE.
  • YMMV.Kingdom Hearts
  • YMMV.Mother 2017
    • A number of critics seem to enjoy the movie more because it's deliberately made to be unconventional and allegorical and leave viewers confused. Seems to be complaining about critics liking the movie.
  • YMMV.Neon Genesis Evangelion
    • It's also been accused of having this mindset, particularly from haters with the opposite mindset. Solely consists of complaining.
  • YMMV.Persona Disappearing Dreams
    • Most of Minoru's work, which seems to only make sense to her. Potshot towards a character.
  • YMMV.Pet Shop Boys
    • "The Sound Of The Atom Splitting", and It Couldn't Happen Here (the movie).
    • Many fans didn't like the sound shift from their characteristic electronic-pop style to a more rock, guitar based sound in their album Release. While the "Home and dry" music video amounted to camera footage of rodents on the London Underground, which didn't help the success of Release much. First example is ZCE, the second example appears to be complaining about They Changed It, Now It Sucks!
  • YMMV.Sonic Youth
    • Not as much as some rock bands, but an awful lot of listeners have reported having difficulty comprehending Daydream Nation on their first several listens to it - its length and the abrasiveness of many of its songs probably don't help on this count. Newcomers often find their earlier works EVOL and Sister somewhat less impenetrable, though, and later works like Washing Machine and Murray Street are also often more easily comprehensible. On the other hand, Daydream Nation is almost universally considered their best album, which circles back to this trope again. Uses complainy adjectives. The last sentence doesn't make sense in context if it reads like Broken Base.
  • YMMV.Thirty Hs
    • It certainly fails as a fanfic, but does it actually fail as a piece of literature? Time will tell... First part is complainy.
    Redundant with another Audience Reaction 7/ 74 9.4% 
    In-Universe 8/ 74 10.8% 
  • YMMV.The Simpsons S 9 E 3 Lisas Sax
    • Homer put it best.
      Homer: (watching Twin Peaks, where a man is dancing tango with a horse in the middle of the night with a traffic light hanging off a single tree) Brilliant! Ha ha ha... I have absolutely no idea what's going on.
Lampshade Hanging In-Universe.
  • YMMV.Candi
    • The motto of Professor Fitzgibbons, who resents that Candi's art assignments are easily understood. Actually In-Universe.
  • YMMV.Dexter
    • The plot of the fourth book revolves around the antagonists' efforts at art with dead bodies. In-Universe, the antagonists try to exploit this.
  • YMMV.Fresh Meat
    • The David Hockney drawing in JP's room. Kingsley thinks it's a baby sitting under a tree; JP, true to form, thinks it's a man wanking. Actually conversed In-Universe.
  • YMMV.I Capture The Castle
    • In-universe, Jacob Wrestling. And how! Several plot points revolve around this.
      • Subverted with the novel Mortmain starts to write during the course of this one. His children think he's either doing this trope or else having another Creator Breakdown because he seems to be endlessly fiddling with bits of childish rubbish, but actually he's trying to write a novel entirely from the perspective of a very young child. (A Shout-Out to James Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.) Explicitly mentions that it's In-Universe, but it's listed on the YMMV page. The YMMV page has a mixture of misplaced main page tropes such as this one.
  • YMMV.JAGS 09 E 18 What If
    • Harriet has a very valuable painting in her mansion, which Bud thinks should be in a museum. Mikey, on the other hand, thinks the painting looks like "roadkill." Actually In-Universe. The page was later cut, but this will be preserved for archival purposes and won't count towards the wick count percentage.
  • YMMV.Kaeloo
    • The Let's Play Art Class episode was a big Take That! against this.
    Mr. Cat: This is a mere yoghurt. But place it on a pedestal, and add a signature, and it becomes art.
Discussed In-Universe.
  • YMMV.Now And Then
    • Samantha's books, according to the other girls. Appears to be In-Universe.
  • YMMV.These New Puritans
    • Their lyrics feature references to everything from numerology to pre-Socratic philosophy. The very music of Hidden also seems designed to invoke this. Invoked trope.
    ZCE/Pothole 28/ 74 37.8% 
  • YMMV.Beetlejuice
    • Delia's sculptures. ZCE
  • YMMV.C 0 DA
    • Broken Base: To fans of the Elder Scrolls, it's either everything that's great about Kirkbride's writing, or it's everything that's bad about Kirkbride's writing, with almost no in between. Potshot towards the creator in a complainy example of Broken Base.
  • YMMV.Family Guy
    • Diane Simmons' short movie Lint invokes this.
    • Stewie's music video he made for Susie.
      Brian: I'm not following the storyline here.
      Stewie: Shut up!
Both appear to be In-Universe cases, but the first example does not explain how it was invoked.
    Unclear/Misc. 9/ 74 12.1% 
  • YMMV.Blue Velvet
  • YMMV.Broken Plot Device
  • YMMV.Lady Gaga
    • She's offended quite a few people and organizations. While many are strict conservative groups, a surprising amount of race and gay right activists don't appreciate her having appointed herself their spokesperson (words taken from a magazine article). While her methods are...somewhat unorthodox, she did play a part in getting the U.S military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy reversed, but public opinion of her has been (and more than likely will be) divided for some time.
    • Her influence on DADT is open to interpretation, some think she just jumped on the band wagon, some think she caused it to change, some think it was just going to happen and she just helped it happen faster. Second example is neutral. First example is vague with the bolded text.
  • YMMV.Death Grips
    • Don't try to "get" Death Grips lyrics. Just don't.
      Deep Web: I'M THE COAT HANGER IN YOUR MAN'S VAGINA!!!
    • In their farewell note, a portion of it read: "Death Grips was and always has been a conceptual art exhibition anchored by sound and vision. above and beyond a 'band'."
    • Their Instagram often falls under this; strange images are uploaded with zero context, sometimes repeatedly (with the most extreme example being a bottle full of cigarettes being posted 45 times in a row). First example is complainy, second example is vague, and the third example is correct and neutral.
  • YMMV.Forbidden Zone
    • The movie makes more sense when you realize that the Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo started out as an absurdist performance-art troupe. The content, however, does not. Sets up an argument with Makes Just as Much Sense in Context.
  • YMMV.Freddy Got Fingered
    • It's earned something of a tongue-in-cheek reputation as a neo-dadaist auteuré film thanks to its seemingly non-existent plot, refusal to make a point out of anything, and Tom Green's word that it was at least partially a stab at shallow studio comedies. As mentioned above, it's not "So Bad, It's Good," it's "so bad, it's art!"
    • Along with Roger Ebert's quote at the top of the main page, A.O. Scott of The New York Times stated that several skits, such as "The Backwards Man" and the infamous "Sausage Piano" scene, might have qualified for a National Endowment for the Arts grant if they weren't from a Hollywood film, and said that they might still go on to appear in the New York Museum of Modern Art someday.
    • Probably why the film has a cult fandom — including Nathan Rabin.
    • Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia presents a compelling case that Green intended the film to be a massive Take That! towards dumb studio comedies by making it the worst possible version of such a film. The fact that the story is literally about Green's character wasting a clueless executive's money doing whatever he wants adds further bite to this reading, as it suggests that Green was completely confident that studio executives cared only about capitalizing on his popularity and shock value and would pay no attention to the content of the film itself.
    • In-Universe, this is how Hollywood executive Dave Davidson sees Gord's cartoon pitch. Examples two and four are correct, the first example cites the So Bad, It's Good exampleExample in question , the middle example is vague, and the last example is In-Universe.
  • YMMV.LSD Dream Emulator
    • Most, if not all, of the noninteractive video dreams seem to fall under this...unless anyone else can figure out the meaning behind watching a kid eating, a goldfish bowl sitting in an elevator, a montage of Russian stamps, and pigeons sitting on ledges, flying, and walking around. It's likely that this is entirely intentional, considering how little sense most people's dreams seem to make. Argues that this could be an invoked example.
  • YMMV.Neurosis
    • Not as bad as some other examples, but don't expect Neurosis' music to make sense on early listens. Due to their heavy use of dissonance and lengthy songs, it often takes time for their music to "click" with listeners. Cites the instance of this trope being used as complaining on this very wiki.
  • YMMV.So You Think You Can Dance
    • Happens quite a bit in Contemporary. Sometimes it works, such as the beloved "Hummingbird" routine form Season 3. Other times... let's put is this way: Season 5 gave us an alien who just destroyed Earth. Now she wants to mate with the last human left, and won't take "Somebody help me!" for an answer.
    • Season 8 gave us a hip-hop routine that was allegedly about children forced to fight in the war in Uganda. The only things that even remotely hinted at this, other than the explanation in the intro bit, were the T-shirts for a relevant charity worn by the dancers. At least the audience wasn't the only one left utterly confused by this; the judges were just as befuddled. First example is confusing, while the second example is a case of Implied Trope that leans towards being a Justifying Edit.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 22nd 2023 at 3:15:25 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#51: Apr 23rd 2023 at 10:33:51 AM

How are we handling the DMOS wicks?

I think we can just leave them.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 23rd 2023 at 12:34:16 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#52: Apr 23rd 2023 at 2:55:25 PM

[up] Okay, marked down as checked. Also added namespaces that are easy keeps by default.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#53: Jun 26th 2023 at 9:36:29 PM

Giving the thread a nudge as I decided to help with the cleanup efforts.

I already found a valid example in a one-off.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#54: Oct 31st 2023 at 9:53:33 PM

Aye, re-kickstarting the wick cleanups! Did a sweep of all wicks in the YMMV headspaces because that's where most of the misuse is. Not counting the pages that are pending to be cut due to only consisting of now-misused True Art Is Incomprehensible examples, current wick count is now at 940.

  • EDIT: Cleaned the C/ namespaces, down to 872.

Edited by number9robotic on Oct 31st 2023 at 10:46:13 AM

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#55: Nov 1st 2023 at 7:22:50 PM

Continuing on sweep, now covered all namespaces between A to N (plus Our Werewolves Are Different/, heheh).

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
number9robotic (Experienced Trainee)
#56: Nov 3rd 2023 at 2:06:49 PM

Wick cleanup complete! Should probably scrub the True Art Is Incomprehensible page itself to check on on-page examples, but otherwise, I think we're good to go.

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#57: Nov 3rd 2023 at 5:40:37 PM

I skimmed the page. The only example I think is questionable is the Dwarf Fortress one.

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#59: Nov 3rd 2023 at 8:40:58 PM

Awesome. Time to close.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Add Post

Trope Repair Shop: True Art Is Incomprehensible
19th Apr '23 9:26:16 AM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to make True Art Is Incomprehensible In Universe Examples Only. Should it also be removed from the No On Page Examples index, with on-page examples being allowed again and added to the page (as detailed in this post, since the issue that caused on-page examples to be removed (complaining about real-life art) is no longer an issue due to the trope being limited to in-universe examples?

Total posts: 59
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