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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Pan_2000 Since: Oct, 2019
#44152: May 13th 2024 at 6:47:12 AM

What is the work?

The Story to End All Stories, a Massive Multiplayer Crossover about the Nothing consuming every story and everyone struggling to make sure the multiverse of fiction stays alive. Normally, everyone, even the bad guys, are subject to comedy, redeeming traits, or both. Except...

Who is the candidate and what have they done? Chuck Cunningham, once a side character, is the person behind the Nothing. He has done attempted omnicide to all of fiction, and has succeeded at erasing some realms. As it turns out, he is doing this deliberately, out of pure spite, and wants to erase absolutely everyone from existence, making them forgotten.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse? Chuck does have one good excuse. He had been forgotten himself in the past, which is admittedly bad enough. But wanting to erase everyone else, even those who already suffer like he did? Petty.

Are they bad enough? Yes. No other villain is taken half as seriously in this story, only he and the Nothing he has caused. While he does have good resources (the Nothing), he still goes past the heinousness standard, because he is an Omnicidal Maniac while the other villains don't even come close to what he did.

Final verdict? While he does have an excuse for what he did, Chuck is ultimately a heinous villain that has gone way too far with his retaliation.

Edited by Pan_2000 on May 13th 2024 at 4:47:53 PM

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#44153: May 13th 2024 at 6:49:32 AM

I refuse to vote on such a barebones proposal.

Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#44154: May 13th 2024 at 6:51:25 AM

Abstain on Chuck. The fic seems too much of parody from what I've read

Starkrafty A coupla mammals makin' gravy (Pentatroper)
A coupla mammals makin' gravy
#44155: May 13th 2024 at 6:51:50 AM

No to Chuck unless you can conjure one heck of an argument to convince me this isn't tongue-in-cheek parody.

Now we're cookin'! While nobody's lookin'! We're family! Culinarily!
Bozzy Since: Feb, 2023
#44156: May 13th 2024 at 7:03:07 AM

Yeah, read a little more and I'm definitely [tdown] now

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#44157: May 13th 2024 at 7:03:35 AM

Had a look at the trope page and don't think this fanfic is taken seriously enough. Characters are self-aware they are fictional and keep making meta jokes at how ridiculous the premise is.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
TurlesTheVegan Mr. House from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Mr. House
#44161: May 13th 2024 at 8:32:37 AM

[tup] for Lucifer.

[tdown] for Chuck Cunningham.

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
umaprasis Since: Jul, 2023
#44163: May 13th 2024 at 8:57:39 AM

Darkrai writeup

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon - EVIL ENDING:Darkrai convincing the hero and partner join his side to rule over the world while covering it in darkness. Ordering them to kill Cressila, he then tells them to kill everyone in Treasure town. Going with them to Temporial Tower to rid of any remaining resistence he has them kill Dialga,Palkia,Grovyle,Dusknoir,and Celebi to complete his plan of covering the world in darkness.

Demon writeup

The Diamond City Superhero:The Demon is a monster from 1000 years ago who along with his brothers slaguthered lives across Feudal Japan. In the present day after surviving by killing and eating his brothers he goes joins with the murderous Butch granting Butch the power to murder who ever he wants which in includes all of Diamond City.Desiring to give the entire Iga clan slow and painful deaths out of vengence the Demon is a truly wicked creature from the Iga's past.

jlvs200s Jogo from The Netherlands (Troper in training) Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
VengefulBale Dagded Dujardin from The Universe (it's his room) Since: Feb, 2016 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Dagded Dujardin
#44165: May 13th 2024 at 9:35:39 AM

[tup]Lucifer

[tdown] Chuck

"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
#44166: May 13th 2024 at 9:39:59 AM

  • Lady Styx is an insectoid conqueror who dreams of reducing all life in the universe to undead slaves who worship her. Created when proud aliens tried to combine their intelligence in order to enslave neighboring planets, Styx embraces their vain vision and works to spread the hero Stygian virus, reducing those infected to her slaves. Her crusade leaves countless worlds, including the whole Sector 3500, destroyed by her fleet and their inhabitants reduced to zombies or Human Resources for her to use. She puts a bounty on the heads of heroes who stood in the center of the universe, planning to dissect them and learn secrets they saw. After getting trapped in the dimension of dark matter, she sends her missionary Darkstars to the Vega system to establish a religion worshiping her there, slaughtering most of the Omega Men and their allies when they refused to worship her. Styx searches for Heartstones, which would give her power to become a god, sending the Spider Guild on Earth to destroy a city and kidnap thousands of people in a search for one Heartstone. She manipulates hosts of stones in freeing herself and becoming the heart for her new body as she almost absorbs the whole universe. Styx is revealed to have infected Animal Man with a virus that turns those it infects into her violent worshipers to continue her work in case she is defeated. She returns to continue her crusade, razing the planet Kranaltine and enslaving its people.

CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#44167: May 13th 2024 at 10:48:33 AM

Here's my second candidate from DeviChil.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

Zebul is a powerful demon who's part of the Big Bad Ensemble of the anime's third arc, and serves as the Final Boss of the series as a whole.

Now, we are told... basically nothing about Zebul's backstory. All we know is that sometimes in the past, for unknown reasons, Zebul "reincarnated" (I don't know how else to call it) into the demon known as Zett Takajō, who traveled across the Expanse to wait for am event of falling stars to happen, because this would release a huge energy allowing him to transform. Zett eventually succeeds into this by using Lucifer's crystallized body as an antenna to take the power, allowing Zebul to be reborn. Zebul doesn't waste time, killing off fellow Big Bads Demogorgon and Paimon and unleashing powerful lightings across all the Expanse, destroying multiple cities and villages. In all this Zebul makes his desire to fight the Devil Children very clear, so that he may prove that he's the strongest demon of all and rule the Expanse. The battle... goes really fucking bad. Like, REALLY fucking bad. The Devil Children's allies are massacred and so they are forced to retreat before risking to face serious losses.

Back at the human world, we see Zebul's actions are starting to have consequences, with a form with giant lightnings having formed. Back at the Expanse, Zebul attacks yet another city, heavily injuring the civilians while demanding that they submit to him. The Devil Children and their allies return and things don't really go much better... until something inside Zebul starts struggling. Turns out Zett is still alive as his own being inside Zebul's body, and is trying to struggle against the latter's will. Thanks to the gun he uses to summon demons, Setsuna is able to get Zett out of Zebul, who starts snapping badly. The now-weakened Zebul is then defeated by the shared efforts of the Devil Children and Zett.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

Alright so, let's get this out of the way: while Mirai says that the whole falling stars thing made Zett's personality split into Zebul and created a new body, which might make it sound like Zebul did NOT exist AT ALL before Zett absorbed all that power, it is NOT the case. Now, I did say that we don't know anything about Zebul, but one scene to me makes it pretty clear that Zebul was the first one to exist and that Zett is a sort of reincarnation: at some point, before the stars and Lucifer's body, Zett's arm suddenly starts shaking on its own. Zett has to struggle to control it, quietly telling himself "Not yet". This to me is enough to prove Zebul already existed beforehand, and isn't a split personality born from the stars' powers (although the two are very much still a case of Literal Split Personality).

Are they bad enough?

Given I proposed Lucifer earlier today, I can't not focus on how Zebul stands out compared to him. Now, Zebul never quite manages to cause the same damages to the human world that Lucifer had caused, but I still think he's bad enough: he's an absolute savage when fighting, he kills two people onscreen, destroys multiple villages and cities, claims he'll destroy anything in his path, and does all this with a sadistic glee (in fact, he's probably THE most sadistic villain in the entire series).

Screentime is also something worth mentioning: Lucifer had an entire narrative arc, while Zebul only appears in the last two episodes of the show.

Final verdict?

Yes to me.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#44168: May 13th 2024 at 10:52:41 AM

Less screentime or not, he seems like he pales in comparison to Lucifer. I'll give a yes if he has fewer resources, but otherwise...

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Libraryseraph Cross-wired freak from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Cross-wired freak
#44169: May 13th 2024 at 10:53:34 AM

Abstain on Zebul. I don't think that single scene definitively proves a seperate existence and therefore agency

Listen to my podcast
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#44170: May 13th 2024 at 10:55:32 AM

Well, I mean, that scene wouldn't really make sense if Zebul hadn't existed beforehand. It also would remove reason as to why Zett went through all the trouble to become stronger to begin with.

[up][up]Well unlike Lucifer he doesn't have an army of his own, but he's essentially at the same power level (if not arguably more powerful).

Edited by CapitanoNox on May 13th 2024 at 7:57:29 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#44171: May 13th 2024 at 11:16:49 AM

So more sadistic, but not as much, at roughly the same level? I'm abstaining.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#44172: May 13th 2024 at 11:27:36 AM

I'm with Seraph. The whole situation is way too ambiguous and confusing for me to feel comfortable upvoting.

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
Agentofchaos A God Am I from Somewhere in the Universe Since: Dec, 2021
#44174: May 13th 2024 at 11:31:55 AM

That' too ambiguous for my liking, abstain on him

REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
CapitanoNox Lord of Space from Italy Since: Oct, 2018 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Lord of Space
#44175: May 13th 2024 at 11:47:57 AM

I mean, how else would any of you explain that one scene if Zebul wasn't already inside Zett? Like, I get not wanting to vote on a character with very ambiguous things regarding him, but sometimes you gotta go by exclusion.

Edited by CapitanoNox on May 13th 2024 at 9:00:00 PM


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