Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kwak, what an appropriate name for a Mad Doctor ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
to Jeremiah Compson, Norman Osbourn, Emperor Palpatine, Tom Charney and Jongmin Kwak.
Abstain on the Scientist.
Edit: to Dr. Kwak.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 29th 2024 at 3:52:15 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure. Jongmin's brother?
Edited by ACW on Apr 29th 2024 at 6:53:51 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Having played the Arkham games, I do remember Zsasz's backstory being legitimately sympathetic.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It’s made a bit vague whether or not, they share the same name and Jongmin jokes to Bindo that he’s practically his brother in law since he’s been living with Eunhee for all this time and he Yoonji as her uncle, but there’s nothing confirmed their family or otherwise than simply them, being partners and Jongmin simply picking up the name
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Apr 29th 2024 at 6:56:48 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
for the Scientist, Sheev, Tom Chaney and both Kwaks.
Abstain on Brain/Zero.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
And here’s the last one.
Who is She? What Does She Do?
- The Unnamed Leader of Goldenbird. She appears twice in the story, but her actions end up as The Greater-Scope Villain of the webcomic.
- Running the secrete organization, she longed for the domination of the world under One World Order where the top are worshipped like gods. After investigating various seedlings used to brainwash others, which was used during Pharaoh Imhotep’s reign as well as Haitian Voodoo to control humans as zombies. She desired to use these to completely turn the human populace into zombies to bend to all their will, and gives the permission of the job to Dr. Kwak.
- Thirty years later and after abandoning the Slave Project, The Leader and her board members are discussing a new idea, this time a plan of a Depopulation Bomb to cut human population in half. However, this is where Jongmin comes in and announces his reapplication for The Slave Project, using the addictive Label D to brainwash the entire world with zombies, and it’s revealed the Leader signed off on this plan and “makes room” for Jongmin by immediately injecting a volatile substance into a mouthy board member, melting part of his brain before causally ordering him to be placed in a hospital under the case of dementia.
- As you can guess, the operation happens and the “zombie” apocalypse begins, leaving hundreds to thousands brainwashed and many dead due to the operation. Fortunately, the hero’s find the cure through music and begin the process of curing the brainwashed individuals and due to Jongmin’s betrayal and eventual death, Goldenbird’s operation is left bunked and will presumably get exposed.
Mitigating Factors?
Now, The Leader initially has a vibe of a Well-Intentioned Extremist who’s actions are to protect humanity from itself. Buuut it’s made clear these are mostly thinly veiled and not noble intentions, with her as well as Goldenbird itself portrayed as elitists with god complexes who wishes to control the entire population, and even Word of God goes out of its way to show that Goldenbird is Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist, exploiting and killing . She’s Also a Bad Boss who inflicts a pretty nasty fate on one of her own men.
Heinous Standard?
Passes, she runs an conspiracy group wanting to control the world, subject a board member to being rendered brain dead basically, planned to try and kill off half the population and signs off on the attempted mass brainwashing of the world population.
Verdict?
Yep
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So, what, she's like The Woman Behind the Man with Jongmin as The Heavy?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
More or less. Jongmin came up with the plan, or at least the updated version while planning it for decades and ran it while she greenlit and signed off on it.
Edited by MermaidEyes15 on Apr 29th 2024 at 7:47:51 AM
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Not the Eye
Michealthehero21 Yeah, I kinda figured that'd be the main point of contention, in addition to having Calendar Man as opposition. Does he ever indicate he doesn't care for his parents in the comics?
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
to the unnamed Leader.
In the comics Zsasz is (most of the time) a full blown misanthrophobic sadistic nihilist who considers all human life utterly worthless, including his own. He doesn't care for anyone or anything.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 29th 2024 at 5:20:19 AM
Goku Black
Kwak 2 and Leader
Meandering Warlord
ACW, you asked earlier about the number of magicians the Scientist planned to kill. While a specific census isn't given in-universe, it's briefly mentioned during his second confrontation with the Overseers that "over half the population use some form of magic." Considering that "population" refers to the entire Stickworld, that's most likely a really big number on the Scientist's hitlist. And that's not including stick figures who don't use magic but still wanted to stop him (This was initially the case for Dave and Justice, as well as Little Brother, who used a gun the last time he directly confronted the Scientist). It's not exactly the entire planet, but the fact that he had enough power to kill anyone who defied him without mercy is nonetheless revolting.
"There's no such thing as pure freedom in this world. Even the wind cannot blow forever."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, that helps a little. Though having the power to do something isn't the same as actually doing it.
How destructive are the other two who don't count?
Edited by ACW on Apr 29th 2024 at 8:34:49 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Meandering Warlord
The One is a demonic entity whose telekinetic powers could rip apart almost anyone who gets too close, and gets stronger the more souls he absorbs. This also includes the souls of his parents (whom he inherited his powers from separately), who died trying to protect him from a mob that feared them for being different. He actually destroys the first Stickworld himself as there were no magicians around to stop him; the second time it happens is because the Creator evacuates everyone he could find before they get disintegrated, including the first magicians, and dismantles the Stickworld himself. The third Stickworld is where the setting actually takes place, and The One was the Big Bad for much of the series until the Creator finally found out how The One was just a traumatized child who came to see the Stickworld as a land of evil and suffering. Despite nearly getting killed by the One during The Cliff 6, he was willing to give the demon another chance, and agreed to separate his parents' souls from him and revive them so they could live happily together. The One agreed to turn back from his Omnicidal Maniac behavior, and even pulled the Stickworld back together after he split it in half.
The First Overseer had the ability to possess others if his soul wasn't imprisoned in a gravestone in time, which also allowed him to learn their magic techniques. He was already capable of destroying entire cities within seconds using his regular Overseer powers, but at some point he manages to briefly possess Overseer Lolph and learn all his moves. This made him so powerful that during The Cliff 7 Lolph willingly worked with The One to defeat the First Overseer despite not knowing that the Creator had already forgiven him. The First Overseer's very presence turned the sky purple, and he dove so far into insanity that he started calling himself an Overseer God.
"There's no such thing as pure freedom in this world. Even the wind cannot blow forever."
Chaney and the Kwaks
....Phenomenal
for the Scientist, Palpatine, Chaney, Kwak, Kwak 2: Kwaklectric Boogaloo, and the Leader.
Edited by TheGrayFox on Apr 29th 2024 at 6:57:53 AM
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Dagded Dujardin
Scientist, Senate the Palpatine, Chaney, Kwak, Kwak II, and the Leader.
for Goldenbird's leader.
Yes to Chaney… however from memory Brain doesn’t l standout from the other evil experimenters (even on children) in the work and unless I’m forgetting Zero taking tangible steps to his “kill all that lives” desire I don’t think either personality for the villain quite makes it.
Yes to Tommy Boy, the two Kwaks and the Leader.
Here are my NYPD Blue write-ups:
- NYPD Blue: Detective Andy Sipowicz and the other detectives at the 15th Precinct detective squad have spent 12 years dealing with the criminal element in New York City. These are among the worst criminals they have ever dealt with:
- "In the Butt, Bob"; "Vishy-Vashy-Vinny"; "Bombs Away": George Putnam AKA the Webster Dictionary Killer, is one of the most prolific serial killers to appear on the series. Starting as a robber who killed 2 people, Putnam quickly developed a misogynist streak and started killing couples with a gun. Putnam would leave notes with letters cut out of Webster's Dictionary by his victims to taunt the police, earning him his nickname. Putnam killed 5 people in New York in 1989, including a 15-year-old girl, before moving to Broward County, Florida and continuing his killing spree. Putnam returned to NYC in 1994 and began killing couples again. Putnam begins to strangle his victims when one of them puts up a fight, killing at least 11 people before he is arrested.
- "Torah! Torah! Torah!": Roger Squires is a brutal Serial Killer who stalks women, killing 6 women overall. Squires stalks women on the subway platforms until he finds one he is attracted to and follows her home. If the woman lives on the first floor, Squires waits until she falls asleep and uses a milk grate to gain access to the window of her room. Squires then opens the window and violently stabs the woman to death, while groping her, taking trophies from her home before he leaves.
- "Keeping Abreast" through "And the Wenner Is...: Lucy Wenner is a seemingly timid and meek woman who is actually deranged Serial Killer / Serial Rapist. After Lucy is rejected for a waitress job at a bar called the Time Bar, she develops a grudge against the owner when he makes a sexist comment about her. Seeking revenge, Lucy goes to the Time Bar and stalks women who leave the bar, following them home. Lucy then goes to her victim's apartment, pretending to be from a charity. Lucy then knocks out her victim with drugs, rapes them with a dildo and strangles them. Lucy then leaves a matchbook from the Time Bar in the apartment to connect the Time Bar with the murders. When the media refuses to connect the killings to the Time Bar, Lucy pretends she was attacked by the killer to further implicate the Time Bar. When Lucy is finally caught and arrested, she claims she was killing for a righteous cause, but Sipowicz quickly deduces she was killing to gain a sense of power and control.
- "Old Yeller": Paul Grady is the owner of a local dry cleaning business who is secretly a Serial Rapist. Grady drives up to women who are alone on the street, drugs them and then puts them into his van. Grady then takes his victim to his basement, which had been converted into a torture chamber. Grady then rapes and tortures his victims for weeks or months, eventually releasing them when he grows bored with them. Grady's wife also claims he beat and raped her. When one of his victims killed herself after being raped and tortured, the investigation into her death led to police being able to pick up the trail that led to his arrest.
- "Peeler? I Hardly Knew Her": Rosa is a Human Trafficker, who traffics women, including children, for sex. Rosa takes women from Latin America who cannot speak English and forces them to become sex slaves. She locks them in an apartment and forces them to have sex with men. Detectives Ortiz and Ronson discover Rosa's apartment while investigating another crime and Rosa escapes with a young girl named Corisa. Rosa is later arrested by Ortiz and Ronson and is convinced to flip on her bosses to avoid a larger prison sentence. Ortiz and Ronson go to another apartment Rosa named and save a woman who was enslaved, but Corisa is not found and is lost to the streets of New York.
Edited by Overlord on Apr 29th 2024 at 8:42:20 AM
Yes to Chaney. Here’s the second candidate.
Who is Dr. Kwak? What Does He Do?
Mitigating Factors?
While he seemed to have been a loyal member of Goldenbird, as well as seeming troubled over the kids dying from his experiments, it’s made clear that Dr. Kwak is a demon of a man, who only cared about rising the ranks of the conspiracy for his own benefit and treats all the children horribly, abusing and experimenting on them without any remorse and whatever love he had for Bindo was conditional and no longer present.
Heinous Standard?
For a regular member of Goldenbird and a Posthumous Character Kwak is VILE. From experimenting on children to death, raping and abusing his niece, experimenting and abusing on his own son and leaving several kids deformed, disfigured and starved and beaten, Kwak is a vile person through and through.
Verdict?
Yes
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.