Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
I think it's more in the psychological torment kind of way that gives him a niche.
Meandering Warlord
I've been putting together the YMMV page for this work when I found out there's a proposal thread for any Complete Monster. Consider this my first proposal.
What is the Stickworld?
The Stickworld is a Stick Figure Animation series in which the titular planet is protected by powerful beings known as the Overseers, who answer directly to their Creator. It initially started as a series in which a certain demon is summoned from too many stick figures killing themselves by accident or because of each other. But ever since The Hero succeeded his father as the next Overseer, the series expanded to include many other characters. Most stick figures learn how to fight to defend themselves from each other's shenanigans, with the most popular form of combat being through magic. However, one particular stick figure is shown to really hate magicians...Who is the Scientist?
The Scientist is a stick figure who was born with incredible physical strength and speed - so much that he could kill a monster hundreds of times bigger than him in a single punch. However, he knew that he can't be the strongest being in the Stickworld if magicians exist as competition, so he made it his goal to kill every one of them to rule alone.Does he have redeeming qualities?
- His parents died when he and his siblings were too young to remember them, and the reveal of who their parents were is only used to explain how the Scientist inherited the strength of giants within an average-sized body. Even if his parents weren't killed, they weren't much better themselves since they were also trying to take the Stickworld by force, so it's likely that they would have still raised him to be an asshole to outsiders.
- The only people who could even think to sympathize with him are his younger brothers (who call him as Big Brother as their parents hadn't given them names yet). However one day he tricked Middle Brother into stepping into a machine and reversing his intelligence instead of strengthening it like they planned, making him so stupid that he can't acknowledge or even remember what had happened. He then punched Little Brother just hard enough that he loses his memories and is convinced to be an unsuspecting assistant in the Scientist's plans. When Little Brother later remembers what happened and begged him to stop while having him at gunpoint, only for the Scientist to punch him, this time with the intent to kill. In both cases, Even Evil Has Loved Ones is averted, showing that nobody can convince the Scientist to give up his vicious ways.
How evil is he?
- The Scientist never stopped working towards his ruthless goals after getting rid of his brothers, and built increasingly dangerous machines to kill any magicians who got too close to his castle, before eventually building a Humongous Mecha designed to kill Overseer Lolph, the most powerful magician at that time.
- The Scientist has been present from the first season up to the third season, though for the second season he had to go into hiding to recuperate from some injuries and rebuild without getting caught by Lolph and his allies. During this time he used two stick figures, Dave and Justice, as Unwitting Test Subjects by manipulating them into fighting stick figures fused with nanomachines. Justice nearly dies while reciprocating Dave's feelings for her, and only escapes when the Creator picks her as the fourth Overseer. The third season has the Scientist eventually used his strongest nanobots on himself, fully intending to punch every magician into extinction, even if that meant more than half the population.
- While there are two other antagonists who've made appearances throughout the first two seasons and are far more destructive than the Scientist, they both possess sympathetic qualities that are explained in their own Backstory episodes. The One was a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds who was eventually accepted a Heel–Face Turn from the Creator after the latter found out how he and his parents were hunted down for having telekinetic powers. The First Overseer watched his wife get killed and went completely insane after getting Drunk with Power, therefore having no agency over his actions. Meanwhile the Scientist never possessed enough power to permanently alter the Stickworld or outright destroy it, but he's the one whose had no Freudian Excuse behind his crimes.
Conclusion
From start to finish, he never regretted attempting genocide against magicians, especially when he is killed facing down all three Overseers who were on duty. I personally say approve.Edited by TheGrayShadow on Apr 28th 2024 at 10:58:07 AM
"There's no such thing as pure freedom in this world. Even the wind cannot blow forever."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Steve,Scientist, and Jeremiah
Edited by umaprasis on Apr 29th 2024 at 12:44:06 PM
Scientist. Also, I have a quote to suggest from god almighty from Supernatural. Again, since its my first, if you have any critiques, please let me know.
God: Yeah, no. I mean, I appreciate the white flag, but, frankly, it's too little, too late. I'm kind of enjoying this story now.
Dean Winchester: You can't.
God: Oh, no, see, I'm the almighty. I really can. I mean, picture it. The two of you, your little lapdog Jack, rotting on a lifeless planet, knowing it's this way because you wouldn't take a knee. Eternal shame, suffering, and loneliness. Whew! That's deep. That's sophisticated. That's a page-turner.
Not the Eye
Jeremiah, Osborn and the Scientist
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Snowy: Maybe? Still not sure Norman's bad enough.
As for the Scientist, you say there are two villains who are more destructive? That gives me pause.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Not the Eye
What is the work?
What If Darth Vader Joined the Rebel Alliance is Star Wars theory video by Pente Patrol Star Wars. Year after formation of the Empire, Vader slowly gets dillusioned with the Empire after learning it allows and practices slavery.
What has Palpatine done here?
After Order 66, Palpatine has Vader used to hunt the Jedi in order keep him angry and easy to control. Around year in however, he sends Vader to the Kashyyyk to kill Jedi he learned are hiding amongs the Wookies and well as crush Wookie uprising, rejecting idea that simply subject planet to orbital bombardment because he considers it a waste of good slaves. Confronted by Vader after his aprentice learns about the fate of Wookies, Palpatine gives his some empty words about how Empire’s slavery is totally different that one he and his mother suffered.
Vader slowly starts to downfall of his master and Empire, letting Jedi he finds go and using time during his missions to opress people of the galaxy to scheme. Vader spends ten years killing secretly killing off Imperial officers, as Empire’s social darwinism leads Mepire to even more infigthing and self sabotage. Palpatine continues to crack down on Imperial officers and in 4th BBY, he sends Vader to Exegol to keep him from mess and show him power of Sith. Only for Vader to sabotage and destroy his Contingency and dissapear.
After Rebelion destroys weapons dish of the Death Star is it is being completed, which caused Palpatine to realise who is behind it and swear to make Vader suffer before killing him. After senate has votes of no confidence against him, Palpatine has it disbanded and doubles down on his tyranny, becoming paranoid. Thanks to Vader (now going by Anakin again), Rebels continue to win, beating his army and freeing slaves. Palpatine has Empire crack down harder and harder on the galaxy as Rebellion gathers more support.
Anakin chalenges Palpatine to duel to the death and Palpatine decides to finish him off. However Anakin has Palpatine’s personal Star Destroyer blown up by explosives he planted in, however during his speech Palpatine impales him and gloats about how his Rebellion and the Jedi will die. His Victory is spoiled however as rebel fleet comes to destroy Imperial fleet and Palptine is killed by bomb planted in the area, as Anakin is revelated to be Force Projection.
Mitigating factors?
Palpatine.
Heinous standard?
His prequel era crimes, opression and enslavement of the galaxy and going harder and harder on it as rebellion continues to win, tries to personally kill Anakin after using him as tormented attack dog.
Conclusion?
I think we all know answer by now.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just a starting content creator
Is this part of Palpatine's evil scheme? To take over the internet by populating it with his clones? Anyway, yes.
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Jogo
Norman, Palpatine, The Scientist, Mr. Black, Griffon, Jerimiah and the God quote.
The Dark Priest himself
Truth to be told I have find another Star Wars What If Palpatine too…however, currently I am pretty occupied with exam, will prob propose him when it is done
I think Iike Gundam and Dragon Quest too much
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I can accept Norman going up (I disagree, but I've made my case). But not, as of now, the Scientist. Even if other characters don't count, if they're far more destructive that may prevent the Scientist from going up.
How many magicians are there anyway? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands?
I'm voting no for now.
Edited by ACW on Apr 29th 2024 at 9:03:40 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Since Fairy Tail has just lost of its Monsters, I’d like propose this unlikely fella, even if I’m bit skeptical about the candidate.
What’s the Work?
Fairy Tail is a manga series by Hiro Mashima. The manga follows the adventures of the titular wizard guild, which includes the Dragon Slayer Natsu Dragneel and Celestial Wizard Lucy Heartfilia. Their teams embarks on numerous missions, that include taking down criminals and enemy dark (illegal) guilds. Today we’re going to talk about one of such dark guild’s leader - Brain, aka Zero.
Who is he?
Brain/Zero is the leader of Oración Seis dark guild, one of the three most powerful dark guilds in the kingdom of Fiore. In the past, he ran a Bureau of Magic Development, where he at once took young Ultear Milkovich at the request of the latter’s mother Ur. Discovering Ultear possesses a vast amount of magic inside herself, Brain lied to Ur that Ultear has died during their attempts to save her, while in truth he subjected Ultear to torturous experiments with the end goal of bringing out her full potential, before leaving the rest of the Bureau’s staff to die when Ultear becomes uncontrollable.
In the present, he leads the Oracion Seis dark guild, whose members he took from the Tower of Heaven. Twisting them into his personal attack dogs, Brain later uses them to capture young Wendy Marvell to resurrect Jellal, his former apprentice. He plans to use the boy to obtain Nirvana - a morality altering magic, which he plans to use to turn Fiore’s legal guilds against each other. However, Brain also has an even more evil split personality named Zero, whose only joy is bringing out destruction. Brain sealed him away with organic link magic using his subordinates as keys (one of which he nearly killed for almost loosing to Natsu). Once all of the guild has fallen, Zero awakens and attempts to destroy Cait Shelter guild with Nirvana, before moving to the rest of Fiore.
Is he redeemable?
No. Unlike his guildmates, his fellow leaders of the Balam Alliance, or even the Big Bad Ensemble Zeref and Acnologia, Brain is highly unsympathetic Generic Doomsday Villain, while Zero is a full-blown Omnicidal Maniac. The only thing that might be redeemable about him is that Brain sealed away Zero out of fear, but I can say said fear is based more about Pragmatic Villainy, since Brain wanted to bring chaos to control the world from ashes, while Zero wants to bring chaos for fun.
Is he heinous enough?
That might be the main issue. Some fans may say he fails the standards to Hades, who wanted to annihilate 90% of the world and Mard Geer, who tried to wipe out humanity. In defense, I can say that he might stand out, considering both Grimoire Heart and Tartaros had higher resources, while Oracion Seis is less powerful (especially to Zeref and Acnologia, two of the world’s strongest men), not to mention him kick starting Ultear’s Face–Heel Turn, making him indirectly responsible for everything she did.
Verdict
I leave it to you
Griffon, Mr. Black, and Jeremiah Compson.
RWBY Fic!Norman Osborn.
The Scientist.
A weak Brain/Zero.
- American Mary: Dr. Alan Grant and his partner Dr. Walsh are a pair of twisted and corrupt surgeons, behind their image of stern but reasonable teachers. To give a lesson about breaking bad news, Walsh has Mary falsely tell a patients family that their father/husband has died in surgery. Later, Grant and Walsh invite Mary to a party for their clique, where the female attendees are all drugged and raped while being filmed. Grant himself rapes and films Mary, while Walsh pleasures himself over a woman being gang-raped. The assault causes Mary's own downward spiral of as her first victim is Grant himself. An investigation into their "disappearances" reveals Grant and Walsh have been regularly hosting these "sex parties" with multiple victims before Mary.
A Child from the Stars
for Norman and yet another Palpatine. Also for Jeremiah if I haven't voted already.
As for Brain/Zero, I want to hear more thoughts first. Somewhat concerned regarding the standard.
Edited by TheCosmicCollector on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:01:40 AM
"If we're gonna play Owl House, we're gonna NEED an Owl House!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Having Brain indirectly responsible isn't enough IMO. I'll let others more familiar with the work weigh in. Abstain for now.
I somehow find myself MAYBE becoming more persuaded on Norman.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Moron
Norman is absolutely okay to be unsure on - like I said, if he's getting by, it's pure quality over quantity - but to me, what made him worth proposing is the lengths he went to to absolutely destroy Peter's life, to the point that he gave up the mantle entirely for an entire year and even during the fic itself is still haunted to the point of vivid nightmares because of him. Kingpin and Taskmaster even both cite him as an example of how it's possible to drive the most selfless and kind individual to cold-blooded murder. Villains get up to stuff typical for RWBY and the Marvel Universe, but no one else has achieved that kind of psychological torment over their victim, even in the Taskmaster vs. Ben Reilly conflict where that is the basis for just about everything Ben has to deal with. Throw in the fact that said psychological torment includes blowing up his own son just to prove a point and that it's still lasting even a year later and to me he's at least worth the discussion despite the heinousness concerns.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, you know what? You've not fully convinced me, but you have enough to move me from a no to an abstain.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jebediah, Norman, Palpatine (hi again)
Abstain on Brian and Zero. Worth noting that CM is incompatible with Generic Doomsday Villains, as the latter are too vague to confirm outright.
Well, I thought Generic Doomsday Villain can sometimes show sadism, but now I see those are different things
So how's this for a first write-up? Barinsky actually has a first name in the manual.
- Colonel Georgy Barinsky is the treacherous chief of the KGB who plots to overthrow the Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev and establish a Stalinist dictatorship. When a nuclear scientist turned whistleblower Sonya Yakovleva tries to reveal his scheme to the head of the Presidential Guard Alexander Grushkov and President Gorbachev, Barinsky lures American journalist Matthew Carter to their secret meeting site and convinces the President that Grushkov and Yakovleva are CIA-affiliated traitors who hired Carter to kill him, intending to have all three of them framed for high treason and sentenced to death. After Barinsky brings Carter and Grushkov to the political prison in Lubyanka to beat the confession out of them, he drugs and tortures Sonya for information, later taking her to Chernobyl to force her to activate the nuclear bombs he's been secretly making. When Grushkov tells the President to visit the Chernobyl nuclear plant, Barinsky orders Sonya's death and stages the reactor meltdown, both to kill President Gorbachev and cover his tracks, kidnapping Carter to frame him for the meltdown and leaving Sonya, many innocent workers and his own men to die in the plant. When Barinsky finds out that Gorbachev survived, he starts an all-out Military Coup and kidnaps the President to blackmail him with nukes into "voluntarily" resigning on camera. After Carter foils the coup and saves Gorbachev, Barinsky's last spiteful act is to try and take millions of Soviet citizens with him by detonating a nuke in the middle of Moscow.
I know this is basically a Wall of Text, but since Barinsky is very pro-active in the game and you see him going through the motions of his plan, I thought that mentioning these bits of context is important. If anyone wants to offer tips or help with editing, be my guest.
Edited by Thermal7 on Apr 29th 2024 at 8:34:22 AM
"Our daddy taught us not be ashamed of our CM writeups, 'specially since they're such good side an' all" - some bald guy from some movie
pronounced 'Scraggle'
That's on the long side but earnestly I don't think it's too long.
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Weak yes to Jeremiah. If ONLY because of how the game portrays him.
Leaning no on Norman. Even with the kid, he kills, what, 2-3 people? The personal crimes aren't enough for me when others kill dozens if not hundreds.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts