Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
What is the work?
Myst: The Book of Ti'ana, a 1996 novel that serves as a prequel to the 1993 video game Myst.
For the uninitiated, the Myst series is about a race of people called the D'ni. They have the ability to write books that allow them to travel or "link" to other worlds known as Ages. At the height of their civilization, they were ruled by organizations called guilds. The Guild of Writers was among the most powerful and influential of these guilds.
Who is A'gaeris and what has he done?
A'gaeris was a member of the Guild of Writers but was expelled for stealing a book, which is a sacred object in D'ni culture. He then spent decades plotting his revenge on the D'ni. Eventually, he teamed up with a man named Veovis and their actions resulted in the destruction of the D'ni empire. A'gaeris then ordered Veovis to write an Age where the two of them could rule over the native population as gods. Veovis refused and A'gaeris responded by quite literally stabbing him in the back. Before dying, Veovis gave his old friend Aitrus a book that would act as a trap for A'gaeris. A'gaeris took the bait and he linked to an unstable Age filled with molten lava that consumed him.
Any redeeming qualities?
As mentioned above, A'gaeris was accused of stealing a book by the Guild of Writers. He claimed to be innocent but given his personality, he could very well have been lying. His loss of standing with the guild also resulted in his fiancee leaving him but it is never specified if he actually loved her or not. At one point, he adopted an orphan but apparently treated him more like a servant than a son.
Is he bad enough?
A'gaeris was a firm believer in racial purity and was appalled that Aitrus had a son with a woman named Ti'ana (an outsider). This cemented his belief that the D'ni were becoming corrupt and must be taken down. He decided that Veovis was a good candidate for a co-conspirator and sought to turn him against the guilds. So he framed Veovis for murder by killing two young men with Veovis' dagger and then freed him from prison, with Veovis none the wiser that A'gaeris was manipulating him. Together, they committed a series of terrorist attacks against the guilds. Their final revenge was the release of a plague that killed every man, woman and child in its path, causing the deaths of almost a million people. They even sent corpses through to other Ages to infect any refugees who had managed to escape.
Final verdict?
If wiping out a civilization that has been around for thousands of years does not make you a Complete Monster, then what does?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
A'gaeris
for Generalissimo Diego, Grant and Walsh, Jonah Greenway and A'gaeris.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for the AA Killer.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Jonah and A'gaeris.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Goku Black
A'gaeris
to Jonah Greenway and A'gaers.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Pending (I don't think Ursula or Aziz got enough votes):
- Carl Reissman (Atlantis)
- Tak (Jackie)
- Sanctimony: Tom Turner (TheMadCr0w)
- Chicken Feet: Eric (Mermaid)
- Devil King (NTG)
- Skul: The Hero Slayer: Alexander (SomeNewGuy)
- Cold War: Barinsky (Thermal)
- Delusions of Grandeur (machinima): Razanak (Turles)
- Old World Blues: Putrescent Mother (xie)
Late yes to Salt-Upon-Wounds
- Delusions of Grandeur: Razanak is a vile demon who has razed numerous worlds by corrupting individuals into serving as his pawns. Approaching the disinherited prince of Drochal, Arulo, Razanak convinces the embittered royal to try and usurp the throne, first by killing his father and then helping him brainwash an army to seize the throne by force, devastating the capital city and killing numerous in the process, killing Arulo afterwards once he feels regret for his crimes. Later on, he latches onto Fox McCloud and gives him the power and idea to brainwash the smashers he feels have wronged him, his machinations leading to the death of Pichu. After Fox is exiled for his crimes, Razanak forcibly takes control of his body to escape their prison and tries to kill Mewtwo for foiling his scheme. After Fox escapes his control, Razanak possesses Roy to kill him and the forces allied against him before attempting to finish the job himself.
So not sure if this is truly mitigating for Jonah, especially since I just saw this part of the episode in passing, and didn't sit down to watch the whole thing, but I'm pretty sure when his backstory was covered, it was pointed out that all the fame he got would legitimately effect his young and impressionable mind, that at the time he didn't quite comprehend why he was getting all the fame or why it stopped, and those feeling served as a major formative experience that was just left to linger in his mind.
I'm not sure if that's really mitigating, given how he seems to end up acting, since it isn't exactly a traumatic backstory, but it seemed to be an explanation for his actions beyond pure entitlement, that he has some pathological desires for what he does, and I didn't see that specifically addressed in the EP.
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
- Chicken Feet: Eric is the head of GOOBER Laboratories obsessed with absolute perfection. All but saying to have transformed a man into a crazed chicken, Cooper, Eric experimented on a baby, Sebastian, for 20 years, turning him into an Artificial Human who is deformed and pained, and plans to redo it soon on another baby. Sending interns out to their deaths when Cooper breaks out, he plans to get rid of the protagonist and Sebastian both when he contains the chicken, and even when killed, Sebastian commits suicide when realizing he’s a human, just like Eric
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
- Here's the lines
"I got full of myself after I'd ace an English test. I can't imagine what something like this would do to a kid's ego. Or how he'd feel when the attention went away. He'd probably miss the adulation. So much so that maybe he'd try to recreate the experience."
I don't think it's really mitigating either
RIP Toriyama
Fine with Grant and Walsh now, we have Anton up who suffers a similar horrific fate that in itself is arguably a "worse" singular act than what the baddies do...buuuuut it's karmic retribution for being serial rapists, so it's prolly fine lol.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Just saw Boy Kills World. Batshit insane in the absolute BEST possible way.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
And it has potential for discussions, doesn't it?
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Jonah and A'gaeris
Yes to Diego, Grant and Walsh, Jonah Greenway and A'gaeris.
I am fine if the AA Killer doesn't go up, he is the weakest of the characters I proposed. So I think that will be 8 NYPD Blue characters overall, I don't think a page for them is necessary, just a long tree.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Probably depends how long the entries are.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
King of the Koopas
Its such a shame doc Ock and venom can’t count as a Complete Monster alongside Norman in this fic even though both are much more evil and consistent compared to other versions nevertheless I’m still gonna propose gobby cause this has got to be one of the most evil if not the most evil Complete scum bag Monster version of Norman I’ve ever seen in any spider Man medium fan work or official.
And hooo boy does he go for it
Whats the Work?
The Spider-Man Chronicles Trilogy by megamatt09 is a fanfiction trilogy retelling of spider man mainly based on the spectacular spider man series though it also borrows elements from other spider man properties
It's also a Gateway Series for readers as it's written in a manner that you won't need prior knowledge the Marvel Universe to read it.
And now we finally get to Spider-Man‘s iconic Arch-Enemy
Who is he?
The one the only Norman Osborn aka The Green Goblin
Norman Osborn as always is the Founder and chairman of Oscorp who’s abusive and neglectful to harry while favoring Peter.
His greatest desire to preserve the Osborn Legacy and his power at any cost
What has he done?
Norman is approached by Wilson Fisk aka the Kingpin about the untimely demise of Mendal stromm but norman coldly states it was the result of a heart attack
Norman is then approached by Harry who introduces him to his friends Peter and Gwen Norman disapproves of Gwen for being a distraction though.
When Donald Menken brings news to Norman about allegations against Oscorp due to him being involved with Dr doom. Norman is removed from his own company.
Norman begins to work on a formula intending to use it to regain Oscorp and causes it to backfire and explode on purpose turning him into the green goblin.
The Green Goblin than attacks a party Fisk is hosting deduces Spider man’s identity as Peter Parker then the goblin holds up a remote control device that will bomb the city of New York and everyone living there and activates it when Spidey tries to apprehend him and attempts to remove his mask and reveal his secret to the entire world thankfully Spider-Man defeats goblin and unmasks him leaving him to be arrested.
It’s also established that Norman framed an old man a named Adrian Toomes for embezzlement ruined his life’s work and stole his computer and designs for tech flight including dumping toxic waste in the ocean near Atlantis killing countless Atlanteans.
Norman meets someone called Boliver Trask and aids him on the mutant problem by creating a contaminant for the mutants and working on something called Project Wideawake building death machine sentinels While at the same time successfully taking over the kingpins Empire.
Norman meets Charles Xavier at Oscorp and opens up his desk drawer To reveal a ring of incredible power he got from a Chinese temple sometime back.
Xavier tries to get Norman to reconsider his actions as the AI he developed is too unstable according to Tony Stark and Reed Richards research But Norman makes his mind up and presses, a button that electrocutes Xavier which while it doesn’t kill him, knocks him out Norman taunts him to read his mind before ordering MRD to put a collar on him.
Magneto eventually reaches Norman preparing to kill him for his crimes against the mutant race until Norman shoots him with a tranquilizer dart having the MRD put a collar on him as well.
Once the X-men reach him Norman reveals that Xavier abused his powers and wiped his memories which lead him to be put in Raven croft when Norman threatened to expose them in an attempt to divide the X-men.
Norman being the smug sadistic asshole that he is says Spider-Man has been killed by one of his sentinels enraging kitty.
thankfully Spider-Man survives as he’s actually transported 2 decades in the future said future is a Bad Future where Norman has succeeded in starting the chain of events that lead to this happening. From Hope Summers
Peters Aunt May is among one of the people who was murdered.
The remaining survivors are forced into slave labor.
Spider man with the help of Hope summers eventually reaches Master Mold with Hope manageing to get Spider-Man back to his current time after the future Master Mold defeat.
Once Spidey is back, he and kitty trying to deactivate Master bolt, but at the same time, Normans rigged the lab to explode as they try.
And even when they do Normans got a back up of the master mold data. And continues to complete it
Trask however, informs him that all of his projects are unconstitutional Leaving Norman to program 3 commands To all of the sentinel robots
1. hunt down all mutants and all who attempt to defend them
2. Initiate self-destruct sequence in three hours all Sentinel robots energy cores will melt down, initiating lethal chain reaction
And 3. Override sequence all locked out from further commands.
Bolivar Trask is horrified by this and does a Screw This, I'm Outta Here.
As Spider-Man Gwen the X-Men Avengers and the others deal with the sentinels and manege to deactivate them as well as Master Mold Norman douses himself with the goblin formula gas again.
His final act of Evil in Volume 1 titled Goblin Night has him attacking the graduation ceremony of Midtown high and kidnapping Gwen Stacy believing she’s holding Peter back from his potential of being his successor.
Green Goblin also stashed Explosives all around The city again should anyone else but Spider-Man interfere.
Gobby and Spidey have their last battle after gobby goes ahead and throws Gwen off the bridge to her death but Spidey averts the I Let Gwen Stacy Die this time around.
Osborn pleads Peter To take him to a hospital just to Lure him to get killed but the goblin suffers a Karmic Death and meets his end then and there.
Or DOES he?
Norman is resurrected in the 3rd and final volume by Mr.Sinister and Apocalypse but is slightly Demoted to Dragon to the latter but at the same time Essex and him made an army of green goblin and spider men clones.
Norman proceeds to belittle Peter before he and the other goblin clone are defeated and degenerate with Norman and the legacy he sought to maintain Killed Off for Real this time.
Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Qualities?
None unlike his canon counterpart he doesn’t have any anything that holds up. he goes out to a Motive Rant twice first with Peter and second when he kidnaps Gwen but they both call Norman out on his bullshit telling him that many of the bad stuff that happened to him were his own goddamn fault. Norman doesn’t give two shits about Harry whatsoever and regrets having brought him Into the world. And despite favoring Peter over his own son he only sees him as an object to carry on his legacy even goes as far to kill Gwen just because he believes she was holding him back from his potential.
there is one moment where Norman gets angry at harry for bringing up his mom Emily with Harry saying that the reason he hates him is because he blames him for her death but that’s because he’s mad at Harry for having a guilty conscience not because he cares about her, hell Norman even says he dropped any love for Emily or anyone else because it weakened him.
Literally everything Norman does is for himself his partnerships with the other villains are strictly professional and shows no loyalty to anyone even when he was Demoted to Dragon to Apocalypse.
Heinousness?
Ohhhholy motherfucking yes as I said before this is one of the most if not the most evil and heinous incarnation of Norman I’ve ever seen in any Spider man media whither it’s a canon work or Fan Work.
He dumps toxic waste into the ocean near Namors homeland killing countless Atlantean citizens and steals Adrian’s company along with his ideas for tech flight framing him for the crime thus turning him into the Vulture and leaves Harry as a scapegoat to pay for both crimes he committed
Threatens to expose the X-men’s status as mutants to the whole world.
And when he Turns himself into the green goblin he gets even worse.
He Creates fucking death machines and AI to help with the mutant threat
Rigs master mold to self destruct when Peter and kitty try to deactivate it even keeping backup of master molds data and when trask tells him that’s his plan has become unconstitutional he responds with programming the mass produced sentinels and AI to hunt down and kill all mutants and any human or otherwise who supports them and defends them
Initiates a self-destruct sequence in three hours by having the Sentinel robots energy cores will melt down initiating a lethal chain reaction which would destroy countless lives on the planet
And Override sequence all locked out from further commands.
He Plants explosives around the entire city of New York and threatens to detonate the explosives destroying the city and everyone living there twice.
First when Attacks the kingpins party until spider man tries to apprehend him but succeeds in taking over his empire later on
And the second time when he kidnaps Gwen Stacy if anyone else but Spider man interferes.
And when he’s brought back to life in the third and final volume he tries to reclaim his company of Oscorp creates an army of green goblin and Spider man clones to destroy his enemies makes a clone of his civilian identity to pose as a reformed citizen while he wrecks havoc and plans to leave sinister and apocalypse when their plan is doomed to fail.
Final Verdict?
I’m pretty sure everyone will agree with me that this Norman is quite the scumbag monster. Considering that everything he does is for himself and that he sheds all of his redeeming qualities and love for anyone other than himself because he sees them as a distraction and weakness.
Do ya wanna know something else? I’m a bit of a scumbag monster myself.
Edited by Godwriter on Apr 27th 2024 at 3:41:35 AM
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Holy mother of...I'm abstaining on Norman on account of that's over 3,200 words.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
King of the Koopas
Should I shorten it?
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
King of the Koopas
I mean I put more effort into my effort posts
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Oh yeah I saw that awhile ago.
And wondered about him
Edited by miraculous on Apr 27th 2024 at 8:14:02 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."