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Ambiguous Name: Widget Series

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Deadlock Clock: Nov 18th 2023 at 11:59:00 PM

To-do list:

  • Widget Series was renamed to Quirky Work and is now for any work audiences think is unusual, instead of just ones that are thought to be odd due to cultural differences.
    • Clean up on-page examples (including subpages) for Quirky Work, leaving examples for works audiences think are unusual while removing other examples, and remove the soft split let over from before the cross-culture aspect was removed.
    • Move wicks to the new name if they fit the definition, leaving examples for works audiences think are unusual while removing other examples.
  • What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? has been merged with Quirky Work. Move any fitting wicks to Quirky Work accordingly.

    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by nw09.

Widget Series is supposed to be for series that come across as unusual due to cultural differences. The title does not indicate this; it comes from "Weird Japanese Thing" but most people won't recognize this, and the trope is not exclusive to Japanese works. Instead, it's misused for anything unusual. According to Widget Series Wick Check, only 6 out of 50 examples are accurate, and even those aren't always specific on how the audience reacts to it. Can use a rename.

Widget Series wick check:

Widget Series is supposed to be for series that come across as unusual due to cultural differences, but it's instead misused for anything unusual. It also has a title and description that are Japan-centric despite being about any culture.

50/50

    Misuse 31/ 50 

    Correct use 6/ 50 
  • Japandering: A trope that exists in the behavior of celebrities (actors/singers/etc.), and is also picked up readily by those in the industry and reflected in the works they make: A celebrity goes over to Japan, possibly somewhere else, and then does a fairly embarrassing job clearly made only for the cash and in the belief that, due to the language barrier and the lack of appeal of a Widget Series, nobody back home will see it.
  • Chrome: A WAT (Weird American Thing) band: spacey, chopped-up Acid Punk that could only come from San Francisco's psychedelic underground.
  • YMMV.Engine Sentai Go Onger: This series basically runs on "Japanese Humour", is chock-loaded with Rule of Funny in basically all of its episode, everything hilariously makes no sense and it's a lot Lighter and Softer than the previous seasons before it. What do you get? A comically nonsensical Super Sentai series which some may hardly make any sense overseas.
  • YMMV.Kuukiyomi: There are a lot of Japanese cultural references, shout-outs and humor in the series, though some people may not understand them and don't know whether their in-game actions are correct. Fortunately, the developers manage to downplay this by adding a subtitle in some situations (such as adding "In Tokyo" and "In Osaka" for those who don't understand Japanese culture, etc.) and adding a Cultural Translation such as remodeling the ghost in the English version. And yes, this game has 2 sequels which made it overseas.
  • YMMV.Katamari Damacy: One of the premier examples of Japanese weirdness out there. A game where you roll up everything you can in a giant ball is weird enough already, but the bizarre characters (especially the King of All Cosmos) and trippy imagery will probably make you go "WTF?!" at least once. Seems okay but isn't specific on audience reactions
  • YMMV.Moemon: A series where every Pokémon is replaced by Cute Monster Girls? Totally Japanese.

    Unsure 9/ 50 
  • It's Not Supposed to Win Oscars: Used on occasion by the producers behind Teen Titans Go!, which is heavily disliked by some adults, especially fans of the 2003 Teen Titans series. The creators have noted multiple times that the juvenile, Widget Series nature of the cartoon is the entire point, and that it isn't supposed to be the story arc-heavy action/drama that its predecessor was. Some episodes use the "kids show" defense when poking fun both at itself and at its massive Hatedom. Though, in an ironic example of this trope, this show actually managed to get two Primetime Emmy nominations.
    Robin (to Control Freak): "Ooh, I'm so sorry that you didn't get any precious golden statues or industry accolades, BUT WE DON'T CARE!"
  • Multiple Demographic Appeal: The Persona series, particularly after breakout hit Persona 3, has transcended its status as a Widget Series to become a hit with players of different genders, ages, demographics and nationalities and a critical and commercial success both in Japan and abroad. Here's how it works: the strategic battle system, stat management and extensive customization features appeal to the usual Atlus audience of hardcore RPG enthusiasts, the art style and setting appeal to anime fans, and the social sim element appeal to female players (so much so that the PSP Enhanced Port of Persona 3 introduced a new female main character and respective campaign).
  • Mundane Fantastic: Anime uses this very frequently, which probably contributes to the perception of "inherent strangeness" for that visual medium. Doesn't describe cultural differences specifically
  • Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: This is also an issue for niche games (e.g. a Widget Series). For example, some argue that several Fire Emblem games outside of Japan could have sold better had they got the promotion and advertising that Fire Emblem: Awakening received. In other words, a niche game remains a niche game (and is doomed to obscurity) because publishers treated it like a niche game, not trusting their advertising dollars to make it sell any better.
  • Self-Parody: Parodius, to Gradius. As the Laconic entry for Parodius states, it's "Gradius on acid", featuring an aesthetic that would not be out of place in a kid-oriented Widget Series. Many moments spoof specific elements of the Gradius series, such as bellydancers mimicking Gradius crab walker bosses and a bald eagle in American patriotic garb replicating the Stage 1 boss of Gradius II.
  • Shakespeare in Fiction: My Name Is Will by Jess Winfeld (of the Reduced Shakespeare Company), in which a young Shakespeare is a character— and so is Willie Shakespeare Greenburg, a 21st century grad student and shrooms mule trying to prove Shakespeare was a secret Catholic. It... must be read to be believed; it's rather a Weird Shakespeare Nerd Thing. Not sure if "Shakespeare Nerd" counts as a culture
  • Living Statue: Zunzunkyou No Yabou (a widget game) have you playing as a sentient Jizo statue on a mission from god to spread the word of Buddha... by firing projectiles at skeletons, disco dans, Chinese chefs, punk rockers, and assorted oddities. It's as ridiculous a game as it sounds. Not unlikely to apply, but the example doesn't specifically indicate it
  • Sleeper Hit: Of the Day One original productions of Disney+, the lighthearted Edutainment Widget Series The World According to Jeff Goldblum was the most-hyped of the unscripted/nonfiction productions because of the presence of the eccentric actor, who became the "face" of the National Geographic brand on the service and did plenty of morning/talk show appearances to promote it. Still, it saw far less advertising (especially offline) than Killer App The Mandalorian and the service's extensive back catalog of Disney, Pixar, Marvel, and Star Wars movies and shows, all of which had more obvious appeal to kids/families. While reviews were mostly favorable, even positive notices warned that it wouldn't appeal to viewers who weren't Goldblum fans... but by the time the first season ended it quietly became the service's third original production to be renewed for a second season (after The Mandalorian and High School Musical: The Musical: The Series).
  • Musical Episode: Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo's 48th episode had them defeat a foe by singing him into submission. Even by Bo-BoBo's standards, it's amazingly crazy.
  • All Guardsmen Party: Most of the group has this opinion of the not-Anime the Tau make about them. The first storyline was a politically-sanitized version of their real adventures with the Tau, but according to a brief recap by the members who actually enjoy it and watch it regularly it brought in Dark Eldar witches and Gender Bender plots pretty quickly.

    ZCE 5/ 50 

What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? wick check:

Wick Check for What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?.

Concerns are: ZCEs, weblink only examples, complaining (stealth or otherwise) about surreal or trippy imagery.

50 wicks. Potholes have been bolded.

    open/close all folders 

    OP for TRS thread 
As the description for What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? says, the very concept of this trope is actually kind of insulting to creatives. It implies that anything that's not slavishly realistic can only be the product of a drug-addled mind, undervalues people's innate creativity, and subtly insults the authors for having thought up something that this critic thinks only a druggie could create or appreciate. Almost every example of this trope is subtly bashing authors for their creative choices, and are frequently ZCEs just saying "this is trippy". The trope sounds somewhat innocuous, but it's really just used for Complaining About Trippy Imagery You Don't Like.

Furthermore, this trope is frequently misused for when creators have admitted to actually having been on drugs during the creative process. That's not this trope. It's never been made clear if it should count if the creatives had made no statement whether drugs were involved or not, but it has been said that if the creators have said drugs were involved then WDYMIWMOD doesn't apply, much as when the authors have said a work has a political message, then What Do You Mean, It's Not Political? isn't applicable. It's been suggested that authors admitting psychoactive drugs made an impact on a work could be a Trivia trope.

I feel like the primary pushback against deleting this will be "it's a legitimate reaction to a work", and I'm going to argue that it's not a wholesome one. We've pulled

Also, I don't think anyone would mind if another "What Do You Mean, It's... trope gets thrown into the trash.

Wicks

    Correct as can be (work is trippy, authors have stated they were not on or influenced by drugs, tone is not overly insulting) (4/50) 
  1. ShoutOut.The Humongous Mecha RP
    1. Multiple references to Neon Genesis Evangelion are made all around the place. Included, but not limited to:
      1. Hans watching the End of Evangelion along with Emil, Dan, Summer and Faith.
    Emil: "Was the director intoxicated when he made this?"
    Dan: "No, he was very depressed and hated the concept of Otakus I think. I hear he's a lot healthier and saner these days. (...)" People discussing the trope.
  2. YMMV.Rockos Modern Life
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Addressed by series creator Joe Murray: "What most people fail to appreciate is that if I was on drugs I never would've gotten anything done."
  3. YMMV.Deagle Nation
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Unlike most examples, Deagle Nation is not a Mind Screw in the traditional sense of the term. However, Most of the performers seem to be on at least one substance at any given time. According to Jan Rankowski, though, he was never high when performing as Jace and he doesn't even use drugs in real life.
  4. YMMV.Off The Air
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The series' main producer, David Hughes, has actually expressed some frustration with this notion, arguing that the show does not need such things to be interesting. This has not diminished its popularity among those who actually are stoned, though.

    Surreal part of a work that the audience thinks was made under influence, with minimum snark (6/50) 
  1. YMMV.Maka Maka
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Bosses and enemies include giant human heads and walking noses, there's an alien princess who eats people and attacks by farting, and the entire game in general is very, very weird.
      1. To drive the point home—Part of the Big Bad's evil plot? To turn the world's populace into giant water fleas! Which he is able to do to the protagonist's parents at the very beginning of the game for some reason, which starts the game off. Fine, I guess.
  2. YMMV.Three Big Men
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Many scenes, and Spidey's new personality count, but arguably the most qualified would have to be Spider-Man and Nadia's sex scene, freaky puppets and all.
  3. Aliens Steal Cattle
    1. MOO!, a disturbing video by Cyriak, features cows being abducted for mutilation and converting their body parts into musical instruments. The aliens even clone them in test tubes until one turns into an incredibly freaky mutant which spawns more... Mutant cows which fight back with the aliens and team up with them later when another group of aliens invade Earth. Yeah... It has to be seen to be believed.
  4. YMMV.Katamari Damacy
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: "Katamari Damacy: not LSD, but an incredible simulation!" Lampshaded by VG Cats
  5. Idiosyncratic Wipes
    1. The short "Pikachu's Vacation" has pretty lengthy and trippy transitions, showing various Pokémon performing some actions. The first time, it's easy to think that it's part of the actual short, and not a transition.
  6. YMMV.Hollow Knight
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?
      1. Analysis of the lore will make one realize that the backstory and plot of Hollow Knight can be just as dark and depressing, underneath all those simple and cute insect character designs, with some fans even claiming that there are a lot of symbolisms and aesops that are harsh when taken literally. The YouTuber named "mossbag" even said something along the lines of "Whatever Team Cherry is having there in Australia, they're having the good stuff!".
      2. Monomon the Teacher's Archives are filled with lore tablets that are seemingly composed of random or made-up English words, some even archaic, that they do not appear to make any sense when taken at face value, and requires a lot of research or word-by-word analysis just to understand what Monomon is trying to write. Other fans claim that this is just one of Team Cherry's attempts at encouraging a community ARG in decyphering the text. Seriously, Not making this up!

    Stealth (or not so stealth) Complaining about the writing (12/50) 
  1. YMMV.The Three Caballeros:
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The Three Caballeros is so flashy, so thrown-together, so explosively colorful and so fast-paced that it makes Fantasia look like Steamboat Willie in comparison. The "Thrown-together" part makes me think the troper was taking a jab at the film's quality, which was affected by WWII and how many people who had worked on previous Disney films were either fighting overseas or working on more pressing homefront issues during the making of this movie.
  2. YMMV.My Little Pony Equestria Girls Holidays Unwrapped
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The third short focusing on the Apple family and the Flim Flam Brothers is just plain bizarre in its logic, like the idea the Apples don't notice that the "party guests" standing a few feet behind them are just wooden cut-outs, or Twilight somehow thinking that tunnelling through the Apples' yard and through the foundation of their barn is necessary for her over-complicated plan.
  3. YMMV.Tigtone
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The elf sitting in the man-faced tree with bat wings is one of the most rational things about this series.
  4. YMMV.Super Milk Chan
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: There's a scene in the Anime that falls straight in to Deranged Animation that ends with (in the Gag Dub) Hanage declaring the only explanation for the scene is "These drugs are fuckin' AWESOME".
  5. YMMV.Love Live Sunshine
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The MV for Ruby's second solo, "Cotton Candy Ei Ei Oh!", quite possibly the single weirdest piece of media ever released in the franchise. If you thought "Love Live" and "Deranged Animation" didn't belong in the same sentence, oh boy...
  6. Cross-Cast Role:
    1. Rogan from Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky is played by actress Yukari Oshima, presumably because no actual man was pretty enough. This is probably the least insane thing in the whole movie. Potshot pothole.
  7. Anime.Puni Puni Poemy:
    1. "One thinks that the Earth's standards for its representative could use some reviewing." I'm familiar with this show enough to know it's a Widget Series, but the description preceeding this didn't really make it seem much weirder than any other Magical Girl show.
  8. Haiku.The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack
    1. Thurop Van Orman, What drugs have you been taking? This show is insane!
  9. Funny.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Battle Tendency
    1. What terrifying weapon does Joseph use against Wamuu the vampiric Physical God? Why, the toy known as Clackers. As the cherry on top, it is thought of as completely silly and hilarious in-universe which is really saying something.
  10. Funny.The Nostalgia Critic 2011 Episodes
    1. The entire portion on the Slim Suit: "Specialists also recommend these magic beans, mixed with a placebo, and brought to you by the Tooth Fairy... When you're in Oz."
  11. YMMV.Tonic Trouble
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Seriously, did you even read that story summary? Or the rest of the page? There's even a character called Magic Mushroom.
  12. Clueless Aesop
    1. Pee-Wee Herman gives a serious (yet somehow hilarious) message about not doing crack. Of all the people to do an anti-drug message, it's children's TV's king of "What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?" Any message would probably be garbled by the question of whether he's doing a bit or not.
    2. There was another odd set of anti-drug ads where a girl high on weed is shown (through icky special effects) to have melted into the couch. Doug Benson has a terrific deconstruction of how clueless this ad was in Super High Me: if your reaction to an anti-drug PSA is "Whatever they were smoking, I want some", it has failed.

    ZCE, don't describe what is and how surreal is specifically. (19/50) 
  1. YMMV.Carols Really Gay Story
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Quite possibly one of the weirdest pieces of fanfiction ever.
  2. YMMV.Monster Party
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: There is no proof that it wasn't.
  3. YMMV.Den Noh Coil
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: How else would you explain the beard episode?
  4. YMMV.Panzer Front
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The story mode.
  5. WMG.One Direction
    1. Because the video... What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?
  6. YMMV.Rick And Morty
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Although the show as a whole does have enough ground in reality to be relatable, the alternate dimensions that are explored are almost always filled with things straight from the deepest depths of this trope.
  7. YMMV.Ninja Scroll The Series
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The series's ninja cast seems frankly to be the result of, at least, some wild brainstorming sessions.
  8. YMMV.Ruby Spears
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Some of their more...outlandish...concepts. In particular, Rubik, the Amazing Cube; Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa, and Turbo Teen make one question the sanity of the studio staff.
  9. YMMV.Lasagna Cat
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The scenes after the comic re-creations are weird, to say the least. And that's not to mention the ending of Sex Survey Results.
  10. WebVideo.Best Of The Worst
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?:invoked Mike theorizes that Santa Claus was the result of a fateful bender which ended with everyone awakening on a beach in wizard costumes, surrounded by unconscious children and empty bottles, and with a film reel mysteriously sitting nearby.
  11. Characters.Hells Kitchen Seasons 4 To 5
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The exotic tartare. Ramsay even asked if Matt smoked - and he wasn't talking about cigarettes.
  12. Funny.Jon Tron Season One
    1. The face Jon makes when actual gameplay is shown for the first time.
  13. YMMV.Digimon
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Not the plots of the franchise, but some of the Digimon designs are just surreal, along with the paths of their evolved forms.
  14. Literature.Eighth Doctor Adventures
    1. These books, commonly referred to as the EDAs, were notable for fleshing out the character of the Eighth Doctor after his short run in the television movie, for having a very compelling cast of characters, for having several interconnected Story Arcs, and for having been seemingly written on drugs.
  15. YMMV.The Peanut Butter Solution
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Again, it's just...so weird....
  16. YMMV.Super Mario Maker
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Aside from the various ways creators can arrange pieces and SFX, there's also some of the Mystery Mushroom costumes (like a talking Mahjong tile).
  17. VideoGame.Dancing Monster
    1. Yeah, it's that kind of game.
  18. YMMV.I Carly
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Seriously, look at some of their skits... More true of the skits on iCarly.com.
  19. YMMV.ISP Presents A Midsummer Nights Dream
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Whether it was Shakespeare, the director, or half the cast… but someone was high while making this.

    Other Misuse (7/50) 
  1. Literature.Dangerous Visions
    1. Bread, Eggs, Milk, Squick: "Novocain; morphine; curare; vlut, a rare Central Asian poison which induced temporary blindness; olfactorcain, a top-secret smell-deadener used by skunk farmers; tympanoline, a drug which temporarily deadened the auditory nerves (used primarily by filibustering senators); a large dose of Benzedrinel lysergic acid; psilocybin; mescaline; peyote extract; seven other highly experimental and most illegal hallucinogens; Eye of Newt and toe of dog." Misuse as clearly drugs are involved in this concoction; it's also on a Main page about events that actually happen in the book. Perhaps it could also be an insulting potshot?
  2. Surprise Creepy
    1. Dumbo is a somewhat depressing story of a young elephant who is mocked for the size of his ears, but it's still presented in a cute and lighthearted fashion. Then Dumbo gets drunk and starts to hallucinate, resulting in twisted, bizarre visions of ghost-like apparitions straight from Hell. Potshot pothole.
  3. DarkerAndEdgier.Anime And Manga:
    1. Yu-Gi-Oh! GX achieved this via Cerebus Syndrome. It started pretty silly, with dueling monkeys and whatnot, with elements of a darker plot going in the background. After that, it went from the brainwashing cult of Season 2 to the way darker tone of Season 3. It started out with new main characters as usual and a seemingly tame (at least compared to Season 2) villain until he gets defeated relatively quickly and then the series gets much darker including the characters dying when they lose a duel, at least that's what they are told, the main character getting tricked into releasing his Superpowered Evil Side and killing some of his remaining friends, and the The Man Behindthe Man / Stalker with a Crush / Hidden Agenda Villain possessing people and making everyone suffer even more because they're a Yandere of epic proportions. The fourth season, which many think was made on drugs, features an Assimilation Plot orchestrated by the embodiment of darkness and despair. Simply states that some people think it must have been made on drugs. Not knowing Yu Gi Oh, this sentence doesn't give me the impression that the plotline (an Assimilation Plot orchestrated by the embodiments of darkness and despair) are trippy by Yu Gi Oh standards.
  4. AtopTheFourthWall.Tropes Q To Z
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?:invoked Pretty much Linkara's entire reaction to Snowflame and the New Guardians... and he thinks Snowflame is either the worst or the greatest thing ever because of it.
      1. Some of the other stuff he looks at would likely leave the viewer thinking this. Exhibit A:The Giant Flea Market-Eating Flea, a literal Giant Space Flea from Nowhere from a Hostess Pie ad.
      2. 2001 A Space Odyssey #2 when Vera is taken away by the monolith:
    Linkara: HOLY CRAP, I'M TRIPPING BALLS!
  5. Website.Addventure
    1. The original intention was to see what kind of a story would come out of this. We'll spoil it for you: the results are utter madness.
  6. WMG.Lady Gaga
    1. Off her Anti-depressants and on LSD? Why do we keep letting her hang out with that Shinji Kid I tell you nothing good can come of that.
  7. Characters.The Spoony Experiment
    1. A parody of Professional Wrestler the Ultimate Warrior, played by Spoony, who shows up in Linkara and Spoony's joint reviews of his bizarre and horrible tie-in comic, and occasionally in Spoony's other reviews. Somehow gained a Red Lantern ring, and is now working for the evil interdimensional god, the Guardian.

    Misc (describes taking drugs but not as YMMV) (2/50) 
  1. Literature.Naked Lunch
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: invoked Well, actually, it was. Burroughs claimed, in the original foreword, that he wrote the first draft in a drug-cocktail haze and had no recollection of actually writing it — although he later admitted that he was exaggerating.
  2. Prison Rape
    1. In a VG Cats strip we have the creators of Katamari Damacy going on trial because it is assumed that they were partaking in the use of illegal substances while making the game. Leo, the judge, is playing his game in excitement before realizing that the term 'roll a Katamari' can sound a lot like a slang term for doing drugs

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 15th 2023 at 12:00:25 PM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#1: Nov 4th 2022 at 7:57:30 PM

To-do list:

  • Widget Series was renamed to Quirky Work and is now for any work audiences think is unusual, instead of just ones that are thought to be odd due to cultural differences.
    • Clean up on-page examples (including subpages) for Quirky Work, leaving examples for works audiences think are unusual while removing other examples, and remove the soft split let over from before the cross-culture aspect was removed.
    • Move wicks to the new name if they fit the definition, leaving examples for works audiences think are unusual while removing other examples.
  • What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? has been merged with Quirky Work. Move any fitting wicks to Quirky Work accordingly.

    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by nw09.

Widget Series is supposed to be for series that come across as unusual due to cultural differences. The title does not indicate this; it comes from "Weird Japanese Thing" but most people won't recognize this, and the trope is not exclusive to Japanese works. Instead, it's misused for anything unusual. According to Widget Series Wick Check, only 6 out of 50 examples are accurate, and even those aren't always specific on how the audience reacts to it. Can use a rename.

Widget Series wick check:

Widget Series is supposed to be for series that come across as unusual due to cultural differences, but it's instead misused for anything unusual. It also has a title and description that are Japan-centric despite being about any culture.

50/50

    Misuse 31/ 50 

    Correct use 6/ 50 
  • Japandering: A trope that exists in the behavior of celebrities (actors/singers/etc.), and is also picked up readily by those in the industry and reflected in the works they make: A celebrity goes over to Japan, possibly somewhere else, and then does a fairly embarrassing job clearly made only for the cash and in the belief that, due to the language barrier and the lack of appeal of a Widget Series, nobody back home will see it.
  • Chrome: A WAT (Weird American Thing) band: spacey, chopped-up Acid Punk that could only come from San Francisco's psychedelic underground.
  • YMMV.Engine Sentai Go Onger: This series basically runs on "Japanese Humour", is chock-loaded with Rule of Funny in basically all of its episode, everything hilariously makes no sense and it's a lot Lighter and Softer than the previous seasons before it. What do you get? A comically nonsensical Super Sentai series which some may hardly make any sense overseas.
  • YMMV.Kuukiyomi: There are a lot of Japanese cultural references, shout-outs and humor in the series, though some people may not understand them and don't know whether their in-game actions are correct. Fortunately, the developers manage to downplay this by adding a subtitle in some situations (such as adding "In Tokyo" and "In Osaka" for those who don't understand Japanese culture, etc.) and adding a Cultural Translation such as remodeling the ghost in the English version. And yes, this game has 2 sequels which made it overseas.
  • YMMV.Katamari Damacy: One of the premier examples of Japanese weirdness out there. A game where you roll up everything you can in a giant ball is weird enough already, but the bizarre characters (especially the King of All Cosmos) and trippy imagery will probably make you go "WTF?!" at least once. Seems okay but isn't specific on audience reactions
  • YMMV.Moemon: A series where every Pokémon is replaced by Cute Monster Girls? Totally Japanese.

    Unsure 9/ 50 
  • It's Not Supposed to Win Oscars: Used on occasion by the producers behind Teen Titans Go!, which is heavily disliked by some adults, especially fans of the 2003 Teen Titans series. The creators have noted multiple times that the juvenile, Widget Series nature of the cartoon is the entire point, and that it isn't supposed to be the story arc-heavy action/drama that its predecessor was. Some episodes use the "kids show" defense when poking fun both at itself and at its massive Hatedom. Though, in an ironic example of this trope, this show actually managed to get two Primetime Emmy nominations.
    Robin (to Control Freak): "Ooh, I'm so sorry that you didn't get any precious golden statues or industry accolades, BUT WE DON'T CARE!"
  • Multiple Demographic Appeal: The Persona series, particularly after breakout hit Persona 3, has transcended its status as a Widget Series to become a hit with players of different genders, ages, demographics and nationalities and a critical and commercial success both in Japan and abroad. Here's how it works: the strategic battle system, stat management and extensive customization features appeal to the usual Atlus audience of hardcore RPG enthusiasts, the art style and setting appeal to anime fans, and the social sim element appeal to female players (so much so that the PSP Enhanced Port of Persona 3 introduced a new female main character and respective campaign).
  • Mundane Fantastic: Anime uses this very frequently, which probably contributes to the perception of "inherent strangeness" for that visual medium. Doesn't describe cultural differences specifically
  • Self-Fulfilling Prophecy: This is also an issue for niche games (e.g. a Widget Series). For example, some argue that several Fire Emblem games outside of Japan could have sold better had they got the promotion and advertising that Fire Emblem: Awakening received. In other words, a niche game remains a niche game (and is doomed to obscurity) because publishers treated it like a niche game, not trusting their advertising dollars to make it sell any better.
  • Self-Parody: Parodius, to Gradius. As the Laconic entry for Parodius states, it's "Gradius on acid", featuring an aesthetic that would not be out of place in a kid-oriented Widget Series. Many moments spoof specific elements of the Gradius series, such as bellydancers mimicking Gradius crab walker bosses and a bald eagle in American patriotic garb replicating the Stage 1 boss of Gradius II.
  • Shakespeare in Fiction: My Name Is Will by Jess Winfeld (of the Reduced Shakespeare Company), in which a young Shakespeare is a character— and so is Willie Shakespeare Greenburg, a 21st century grad student and shrooms mule trying to prove Shakespeare was a secret Catholic. It... must be read to be believed; it's rather a Weird Shakespeare Nerd Thing. Not sure if "Shakespeare Nerd" counts as a culture
  • Living Statue: Zunzunkyou No Yabou (a widget game) have you playing as a sentient Jizo statue on a mission from god to spread the word of Buddha... by firing projectiles at skeletons, disco dans, Chinese chefs, punk rockers, and assorted oddities. It's as ridiculous a game as it sounds. Not unlikely to apply, but the example doesn't specifically indicate it
  • Sleeper Hit: Of the Day One original productions of Disney+, the lighthearted Edutainment Widget Series The World According to Jeff Goldblum was the most-hyped of the unscripted/nonfiction productions because of the presence of the eccentric actor, who became the "face" of the National Geographic brand on the service and did plenty of morning/talk show appearances to promote it. Still, it saw far less advertising (especially offline) than Killer App The Mandalorian and the service's extensive back catalog of Disney, Pixar, Marvel, and Star Wars movies and shows, all of which had more obvious appeal to kids/families. While reviews were mostly favorable, even positive notices warned that it wouldn't appeal to viewers who weren't Goldblum fans... but by the time the first season ended it quietly became the service's third original production to be renewed for a second season (after The Mandalorian and High School Musical: The Musical: The Series).
  • Musical Episode: Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo's 48th episode had them defeat a foe by singing him into submission. Even by Bo-BoBo's standards, it's amazingly crazy.
  • All Guardsmen Party: Most of the group has this opinion of the not-Anime the Tau make about them. The first storyline was a politically-sanitized version of their real adventures with the Tau, but according to a brief recap by the members who actually enjoy it and watch it regularly it brought in Dark Eldar witches and Gender Bender plots pretty quickly.

    ZCE 5/ 50 

What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? wick check:

Wick Check for What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?.

Concerns are: ZCEs, weblink only examples, complaining (stealth or otherwise) about surreal or trippy imagery.

50 wicks. Potholes have been bolded.

    open/close all folders 

    OP for TRS thread 
As the description for What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? says, the very concept of this trope is actually kind of insulting to creatives. It implies that anything that's not slavishly realistic can only be the product of a drug-addled mind, undervalues people's innate creativity, and subtly insults the authors for having thought up something that this critic thinks only a druggie could create or appreciate. Almost every example of this trope is subtly bashing authors for their creative choices, and are frequently ZCEs just saying "this is trippy". The trope sounds somewhat innocuous, but it's really just used for Complaining About Trippy Imagery You Don't Like.

Furthermore, this trope is frequently misused for when creators have admitted to actually having been on drugs during the creative process. That's not this trope. It's never been made clear if it should count if the creatives had made no statement whether drugs were involved or not, but it has been said that if the creators have said drugs were involved then WDYMIWMOD doesn't apply, much as when the authors have said a work has a political message, then What Do You Mean, It's Not Political? isn't applicable. It's been suggested that authors admitting psychoactive drugs made an impact on a work could be a Trivia trope.

I feel like the primary pushback against deleting this will be "it's a legitimate reaction to a work", and I'm going to argue that it's not a wholesome one. We've pulled

Also, I don't think anyone would mind if another "What Do You Mean, It's... trope gets thrown into the trash.

Wicks

    Correct as can be (work is trippy, authors have stated they were not on or influenced by drugs, tone is not overly insulting) (4/50) 
  1. ShoutOut.The Humongous Mecha RP
    1. Multiple references to Neon Genesis Evangelion are made all around the place. Included, but not limited to:
      1. Hans watching the End of Evangelion along with Emil, Dan, Summer and Faith.
    Emil: "Was the director intoxicated when he made this?"
    Dan: "No, he was very depressed and hated the concept of Otakus I think. I hear he's a lot healthier and saner these days. (...)" People discussing the trope.
  2. YMMV.Rockos Modern Life
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Addressed by series creator Joe Murray: "What most people fail to appreciate is that if I was on drugs I never would've gotten anything done."
  3. YMMV.Deagle Nation
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Unlike most examples, Deagle Nation is not a Mind Screw in the traditional sense of the term. However, Most of the performers seem to be on at least one substance at any given time. According to Jan Rankowski, though, he was never high when performing as Jace and he doesn't even use drugs in real life.
  4. YMMV.Off The Air
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The series' main producer, David Hughes, has actually expressed some frustration with this notion, arguing that the show does not need such things to be interesting. This has not diminished its popularity among those who actually are stoned, though.

    Surreal part of a work that the audience thinks was made under influence, with minimum snark (6/50) 
  1. YMMV.Maka Maka
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Bosses and enemies include giant human heads and walking noses, there's an alien princess who eats people and attacks by farting, and the entire game in general is very, very weird.
      1. To drive the point home—Part of the Big Bad's evil plot? To turn the world's populace into giant water fleas! Which he is able to do to the protagonist's parents at the very beginning of the game for some reason, which starts the game off. Fine, I guess.
  2. YMMV.Three Big Men
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Many scenes, and Spidey's new personality count, but arguably the most qualified would have to be Spider-Man and Nadia's sex scene, freaky puppets and all.
  3. Aliens Steal Cattle
    1. MOO!, a disturbing video by Cyriak, features cows being abducted for mutilation and converting their body parts into musical instruments. The aliens even clone them in test tubes until one turns into an incredibly freaky mutant which spawns more... Mutant cows which fight back with the aliens and team up with them later when another group of aliens invade Earth. Yeah... It has to be seen to be believed.
  4. YMMV.Katamari Damacy
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: "Katamari Damacy: not LSD, but an incredible simulation!" Lampshaded by VG Cats
  5. Idiosyncratic Wipes
    1. The short "Pikachu's Vacation" has pretty lengthy and trippy transitions, showing various Pokémon performing some actions. The first time, it's easy to think that it's part of the actual short, and not a transition.
  6. YMMV.Hollow Knight
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?
      1. Analysis of the lore will make one realize that the backstory and plot of Hollow Knight can be just as dark and depressing, underneath all those simple and cute insect character designs, with some fans even claiming that there are a lot of symbolisms and aesops that are harsh when taken literally. The YouTuber named "mossbag" even said something along the lines of "Whatever Team Cherry is having there in Australia, they're having the good stuff!".
      2. Monomon the Teacher's Archives are filled with lore tablets that are seemingly composed of random or made-up English words, some even archaic, that they do not appear to make any sense when taken at face value, and requires a lot of research or word-by-word analysis just to understand what Monomon is trying to write. Other fans claim that this is just one of Team Cherry's attempts at encouraging a community ARG in decyphering the text. Seriously, Not making this up!

    Stealth (or not so stealth) Complaining about the writing (12/50) 
  1. YMMV.The Three Caballeros:
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The Three Caballeros is so flashy, so thrown-together, so explosively colorful and so fast-paced that it makes Fantasia look like Steamboat Willie in comparison. The "Thrown-together" part makes me think the troper was taking a jab at the film's quality, which was affected by WWII and how many people who had worked on previous Disney films were either fighting overseas or working on more pressing homefront issues during the making of this movie.
  2. YMMV.My Little Pony Equestria Girls Holidays Unwrapped
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The third short focusing on the Apple family and the Flim Flam Brothers is just plain bizarre in its logic, like the idea the Apples don't notice that the "party guests" standing a few feet behind them are just wooden cut-outs, or Twilight somehow thinking that tunnelling through the Apples' yard and through the foundation of their barn is necessary for her over-complicated plan.
  3. YMMV.Tigtone
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The elf sitting in the man-faced tree with bat wings is one of the most rational things about this series.
  4. YMMV.Super Milk Chan
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: There's a scene in the Anime that falls straight in to Deranged Animation that ends with (in the Gag Dub) Hanage declaring the only explanation for the scene is "These drugs are fuckin' AWESOME".
  5. YMMV.Love Live Sunshine
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The MV for Ruby's second solo, "Cotton Candy Ei Ei Oh!", quite possibly the single weirdest piece of media ever released in the franchise. If you thought "Love Live" and "Deranged Animation" didn't belong in the same sentence, oh boy...
  6. Cross-Cast Role:
    1. Rogan from Riki-Oh: The Story of Ricky is played by actress Yukari Oshima, presumably because no actual man was pretty enough. This is probably the least insane thing in the whole movie. Potshot pothole.
  7. Anime.Puni Puni Poemy:
    1. "One thinks that the Earth's standards for its representative could use some reviewing." I'm familiar with this show enough to know it's a Widget Series, but the description preceeding this didn't really make it seem much weirder than any other Magical Girl show.
  8. Haiku.The Marvelous Misadventures Of Flapjack
    1. Thurop Van Orman, What drugs have you been taking? This show is insane!
  9. Funny.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Battle Tendency
    1. What terrifying weapon does Joseph use against Wamuu the vampiric Physical God? Why, the toy known as Clackers. As the cherry on top, it is thought of as completely silly and hilarious in-universe which is really saying something.
  10. Funny.The Nostalgia Critic 2011 Episodes
    1. The entire portion on the Slim Suit: "Specialists also recommend these magic beans, mixed with a placebo, and brought to you by the Tooth Fairy... When you're in Oz."
  11. YMMV.Tonic Trouble
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Seriously, did you even read that story summary? Or the rest of the page? There's even a character called Magic Mushroom.
  12. Clueless Aesop
    1. Pee-Wee Herman gives a serious (yet somehow hilarious) message about not doing crack. Of all the people to do an anti-drug message, it's children's TV's king of "What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?" Any message would probably be garbled by the question of whether he's doing a bit or not.
    2. There was another odd set of anti-drug ads where a girl high on weed is shown (through icky special effects) to have melted into the couch. Doug Benson has a terrific deconstruction of how clueless this ad was in Super High Me: if your reaction to an anti-drug PSA is "Whatever they were smoking, I want some", it has failed.

    ZCE, don't describe what is and how surreal is specifically. (19/50) 
  1. YMMV.Carols Really Gay Story
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Quite possibly one of the weirdest pieces of fanfiction ever.
  2. YMMV.Monster Party
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: There is no proof that it wasn't.
  3. YMMV.Den Noh Coil
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: How else would you explain the beard episode?
  4. YMMV.Panzer Front
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The story mode.
  5. WMG.One Direction
    1. Because the video... What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?
  6. YMMV.Rick And Morty
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Although the show as a whole does have enough ground in reality to be relatable, the alternate dimensions that are explored are almost always filled with things straight from the deepest depths of this trope.
  7. YMMV.Ninja Scroll The Series
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The series's ninja cast seems frankly to be the result of, at least, some wild brainstorming sessions.
  8. YMMV.Ruby Spears
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Some of their more...outlandish...concepts. In particular, Rubik, the Amazing Cube; Wild West C.O.W.-Boys of Moo Mesa, and Turbo Teen make one question the sanity of the studio staff.
  9. YMMV.Lasagna Cat
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The scenes after the comic re-creations are weird, to say the least. And that's not to mention the ending of Sex Survey Results.
  10. WebVideo.Best Of The Worst
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?:invoked Mike theorizes that Santa Claus was the result of a fateful bender which ended with everyone awakening on a beach in wizard costumes, surrounded by unconscious children and empty bottles, and with a film reel mysteriously sitting nearby.
  11. Characters.Hells Kitchen Seasons 4 To 5
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: The exotic tartare. Ramsay even asked if Matt smoked - and he wasn't talking about cigarettes.
  12. Funny.Jon Tron Season One
    1. The face Jon makes when actual gameplay is shown for the first time.
  13. YMMV.Digimon
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Not the plots of the franchise, but some of the Digimon designs are just surreal, along with the paths of their evolved forms.
  14. Literature.Eighth Doctor Adventures
    1. These books, commonly referred to as the EDAs, were notable for fleshing out the character of the Eighth Doctor after his short run in the television movie, for having a very compelling cast of characters, for having several interconnected Story Arcs, and for having been seemingly written on drugs.
  15. YMMV.The Peanut Butter Solution
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Again, it's just...so weird....
  16. YMMV.Super Mario Maker
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Aside from the various ways creators can arrange pieces and SFX, there's also some of the Mystery Mushroom costumes (like a talking Mahjong tile).
  17. VideoGame.Dancing Monster
    1. Yeah, it's that kind of game.
  18. YMMV.I Carly
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Seriously, look at some of their skits... More true of the skits on iCarly.com.
  19. YMMV.ISP Presents A Midsummer Nights Dream
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: Whether it was Shakespeare, the director, or half the cast… but someone was high while making this.

    Other Misuse (7/50) 
  1. Literature.Dangerous Visions
    1. Bread, Eggs, Milk, Squick: "Novocain; morphine; curare; vlut, a rare Central Asian poison which induced temporary blindness; olfactorcain, a top-secret smell-deadener used by skunk farmers; tympanoline, a drug which temporarily deadened the auditory nerves (used primarily by filibustering senators); a large dose of Benzedrinel lysergic acid; psilocybin; mescaline; peyote extract; seven other highly experimental and most illegal hallucinogens; Eye of Newt and toe of dog." Misuse as clearly drugs are involved in this concoction; it's also on a Main page about events that actually happen in the book. Perhaps it could also be an insulting potshot?
  2. Surprise Creepy
    1. Dumbo is a somewhat depressing story of a young elephant who is mocked for the size of his ears, but it's still presented in a cute and lighthearted fashion. Then Dumbo gets drunk and starts to hallucinate, resulting in twisted, bizarre visions of ghost-like apparitions straight from Hell. Potshot pothole.
  3. DarkerAndEdgier.Anime And Manga:
    1. Yu-Gi-Oh! GX achieved this via Cerebus Syndrome. It started pretty silly, with dueling monkeys and whatnot, with elements of a darker plot going in the background. After that, it went from the brainwashing cult of Season 2 to the way darker tone of Season 3. It started out with new main characters as usual and a seemingly tame (at least compared to Season 2) villain until he gets defeated relatively quickly and then the series gets much darker including the characters dying when they lose a duel, at least that's what they are told, the main character getting tricked into releasing his Superpowered Evil Side and killing some of his remaining friends, and the The Man Behindthe Man / Stalker with a Crush / Hidden Agenda Villain possessing people and making everyone suffer even more because they're a Yandere of epic proportions. The fourth season, which many think was made on drugs, features an Assimilation Plot orchestrated by the embodiment of darkness and despair. Simply states that some people think it must have been made on drugs. Not knowing Yu Gi Oh, this sentence doesn't give me the impression that the plotline (an Assimilation Plot orchestrated by the embodiments of darkness and despair) are trippy by Yu Gi Oh standards.
  4. AtopTheFourthWall.Tropes Q To Z
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?:invoked Pretty much Linkara's entire reaction to Snowflame and the New Guardians... and he thinks Snowflame is either the worst or the greatest thing ever because of it.
      1. Some of the other stuff he looks at would likely leave the viewer thinking this. Exhibit A:The Giant Flea Market-Eating Flea, a literal Giant Space Flea from Nowhere from a Hostess Pie ad.
      2. 2001 A Space Odyssey #2 when Vera is taken away by the monolith:
    Linkara: HOLY CRAP, I'M TRIPPING BALLS!
  5. Website.Addventure
    1. The original intention was to see what kind of a story would come out of this. We'll spoil it for you: the results are utter madness.
  6. WMG.Lady Gaga
    1. Off her Anti-depressants and on LSD? Why do we keep letting her hang out with that Shinji Kid I tell you nothing good can come of that.
  7. Characters.The Spoony Experiment
    1. A parody of Professional Wrestler the Ultimate Warrior, played by Spoony, who shows up in Linkara and Spoony's joint reviews of his bizarre and horrible tie-in comic, and occasionally in Spoony's other reviews. Somehow gained a Red Lantern ring, and is now working for the evil interdimensional god, the Guardian.

    Misc (describes taking drugs but not as YMMV) (2/50) 
  1. Literature.Naked Lunch
    1. What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?: invoked Well, actually, it was. Burroughs claimed, in the original foreword, that he wrote the first draft in a drug-cocktail haze and had no recollection of actually writing it — although he later admitted that he was exaggerating.
  2. Prison Rape
    1. In a VG Cats strip we have the creators of Katamari Damacy going on trial because it is assumed that they were partaking in the use of illegal substances while making the game. Leo, the judge, is playing his game in excitement before realizing that the term 'roll a Katamari' can sound a lot like a slang term for doing drugs

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 15th 2023 at 12:00:25 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#2: Nov 4th 2022 at 7:58:37 PM

Paging ~nw09 to the thread.

Anyway, what about removing the cultural aspect and making it about strange works in general, since it's already YMMV? We might not even need to rename if we do that. The previous TRS thread planned to split off Bizarro Series for those examples before it clocked out, but I think it would be easier to expand Widget Series instead of splitting.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 4th 2022 at 9:59:55 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
WarJay77 Discarded and Feeling Blue (Troper Knight)
Discarded and Feeling Blue
#3: Nov 4th 2022 at 8:07:26 PM

I'm glad we're finally tackling this one again. I was around when the previous TRS happened, and I can distinctly remember it closing without actually making any changes, which only made the problem worse.

I can see an expansion.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 4th 2022 at 11:07:50 AM

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Noaqiyeum Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they) from the gentle and welcoming dark (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#4: Nov 4th 2022 at 8:37:09 PM

Expanding sounds good, though I'm a little surprised if there isn't any overlap with something like Mind Screw or What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? (because apparently "this was too weird for me" is not just one trope, but several).

(I'd rather keep Widget Series than WDYM, though.)

Edited by Noaqiyeum on Nov 4th 2022 at 3:37:56 PM

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5: Nov 4th 2022 at 8:38:00 PM

Previous thread, for reference.

Yeah, I'm good with just expanding this to what we intended to split off Bizarro Series into. Maybe that could even be a redirect to help clarify things.

Edited by Adept on Nov 4th 2022 at 10:39:08 PM

nw09 Since: Apr, 2018
#6: Nov 4th 2022 at 9:13:04 PM

That would definitely need a description rewrite, because the one now is very Japan-centric. However, the name might have to be changed in that case.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#7: Nov 5th 2022 at 12:18:22 AM

I'm leaning toward expanding the definition without changing the name to make wick cleanup easier, but changing the name (such as changing the name to Bizarro Series instead of making Bizarro Series separate as was originally planned) isn't out of the question. The description could still be changed that way, and even if we don't rename, we'd probably still need to do wick cleanup because I don't think the move to YMMV was ever completed with the previous thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 5th 2022 at 2:19:03 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#8: Nov 5th 2022 at 12:38:06 AM

I hardly see a difference between it and What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs?, so I question if we can merge the two under a new name.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 Discarded and Feeling Blue (Troper Knight)
Discarded and Feeling Blue
#9: Nov 5th 2022 at 12:40:35 AM

This feels like a supertrope of that, because that one specifies that the audience assumes drugs are involved.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Noaqiyeum Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they) from the gentle and welcoming dark (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#10: Nov 5th 2022 at 3:06:51 AM

The audience always assumes drugs were involved in anything the slightest bit unconventional.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#11: Nov 5th 2022 at 3:12:07 AM

[up]yeah I never took What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? to be literal, just that the work had to evoke a particular feeling of surrealism and strangeness, the kind most frequently experienced when tripping

Edited by amathieu13 on Nov 5th 2022 at 6:12:22 AM

themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#12: Nov 5th 2022 at 6:14:02 AM

What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? has itself been floated as a TRS candidate in the past—I believe Miss Conduct was working on a wick check for it at one point.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Nov 5th 2022 at 9:14:46 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#13: Nov 5th 2022 at 6:24:20 AM

If anything, I'd rather keep Widget Series and save whether to merge What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? with it for later, as opposed to merging the former with the latter, since Audience Reactions that use the "What Do You Mean, It's X/Not X?" snowclone cause enough problems that some have been renamed (What Do You Mean, It's Not Symbolic? being renamed to Faux Symbolism comes to mind), and I recall Septimus saying he thinks two Audience Reactions with that snowclone, What Do You Mean, It's for Kids? and What Do You Mean, It's Not for Kids?, are overdue for TRS (he said this in an IP thread for at least one of them from maybe two or three years ago, back when I was more active on IP, but I don't remember the exact details except that he said a wick check would be required as usual).

Edit: Now that I think about it, having both "weird work" (which I'd prefer to expand Widget Series into instead of requiring a cultural aspect) and "weird work that people think was made under the influence" strikes me as the former being valid and the latter being The Same, but More Specific to the former.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 6th 2022 at 5:26:30 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#14: Nov 5th 2022 at 8:56:48 AM

You know what, I'm going to ping ~Miss Conduct to see if they have any thoughts here since this thread may cover a trope they were wick checking.

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#15: Nov 5th 2022 at 9:01:03 AM

I've found What Do You Mean It Wasnt Wicked On Drugs, so if needed we can finish it and see of it's effectively the same.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#16: Nov 5th 2022 at 9:41:39 AM

[up]I checked who created that sandbox and that's the wick check by MissConduct themayorofsimpleton mentioned. It hasn't been worked on since late July, but maybe we can get permission to finish it if they lost interest.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 5th 2022 at 11:42:51 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Jokubas Since: Jan, 2010
#17: Nov 5th 2022 at 11:52:10 AM

I am for removing as much of this one as possible. I'd be fine with preserving meaningful cultural differences, but too much of this page comes across more like "let's play up how weird this is because it fits a cultural stereotype" or "use a cultural barrier to act like this wouldn't happen in my own culture even though it totally does". A lot of it seems deliberately worded to come across as weird as possible, in a similar way as that page we used to have about comparing two series would deliberately make a plot as vague as possible in order to make it impossible to guess which was which.

The idea of "I only see this as weird because it's filtered through a cultural barrier" is one of the reasons I hate the Anime Hair trope. Yugi's pretty wild, I won't defend that, but he's also an extreme even within anime. Far too many examples and potholes of that trope are just "stylized (or even just poorly drawn) cartoon hair, but because it came from Japan I will link it to Anime Hair", and it seems that's a huge problem for Widget Series too.

Just from a quick skim, one of the most blatant entries of that style is this (which is coincidentally about Japan): "The Japanese have a weird obsession with making as much noise as possible when driving a car or motorbike (even if that noise is the sound of the engine being shredded)." Since when is that a Japanese-specific thing? I'd love to tell all the people who do this in my area that.

The final reason I'm not a fan of Widget Series is that culture is often treated as some sort of permanent monolith, but culture is always changing.

I remember when free-to-play games with predatory monetization was a "weird Korean thing" that everyone said would never catch on anywhere else, but there are surely younger tropers on this site for whom that's always been a normal part of video games for them. Similar thing with Gacha Games and Toys.

Which isn't to say we should never trope something that eventually becomes part of the past, but I just don't think this is the right context for it.

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#18: Nov 5th 2022 at 11:56:59 AM

Alternatively we can rename and reinforce "it only makes sense in its culture of origin", but I'm afraid of that being close to Values Dissonance.

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 5th 2022 at 9:57:17 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#19: Nov 5th 2022 at 2:02:42 PM

Don't forget that there are many examples of Germans Love David Hasselhoff Cash-Cow Franchise that are also Widget Series.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 5th 2022 at 5:02:51 AM

Kirby is awesome.
MissConduct (Lucky 7)
#20: Nov 5th 2022 at 5:34:44 PM

I was working on a What Do You Mean, It Wasn't Made on Drugs? Wick Check for a while, but then other things came up and I never got around to finishing it.

If you want my opinion, I don't think either of these tropes are tropeworthy, even as YMMV. I think that they're obnoxious relics of TV Tropes' more snarky past, and both of them are just veiled insults at the work in question and its creators (even if the tropers that add examples for these tropes don't intend it, that's still what they come off as). Widget Series dismissively labels a work as "Something weird that only someone from some wacky foreign country could make or enjoy". WDYMIWMOD says "This is so weird only someone on psychoactive substances could make or enjoy this", often with an undercurrent of "This work is so bad only those not in their right state of mind could enjoy this", and sometimes it's used for "bizarre imagery" in general.

Another thing I dislike about both tropes is that unlike a lot of YMMV tropes, which tend to chronicle general trends in its audience and fandom, these tropes just seem like one guy thinks this show is weird or bizarre. For instance, He's Just Hiding is meant to be about popular fan theories that someone is faking their death, and Base-Breaking Character is meant to be about characters that a group of fans think is an Ensemble Dark Horse and others think is The Scrappy. Widget Series and WDYMIWMOD most of the time just sound like "I think this show is wacky (and maybe terrible)".

I will say of the two Widget Series tends to be used less often for backhanded insults than WDYMIWMOD from what I've seen, but that might also be 'cause Widget Series is used less often, at least from what I've seen (granted I don't spend too much time in the anime/manga part of this site, maybe it's more widespread than I've seen).

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#21: Nov 5th 2022 at 5:45:32 PM

Didn't think either was supposed to be insulting but I guess it's something to see from the wick check.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#22: Nov 5th 2022 at 6:07:48 PM

[up][up]

Another thing I dislike about both tropes is that unlike a lot of YMMV tropes, which tend to chronicle general trends in its audience and fandom, these tropes just seem like one guy thinks this show is weird or bizarre[...]Widget Series and WDYMIWMOD most of the time just sound like "I think this show is wacky (and maybe terrible)".

That's actually an interesting point. As I understand it, YMMV tropes are supposed to document how the audience reacts to work. While Widget Series ostensibly documents when the audience of a work think that work is weird, a look at the wick check shows that a lot of the misused examples read like this:

  • Widget Series: Work Name has (wacky description of plot). Yes, really.

With differing degrees of context—some entries were written better and with more context than others.

The point here, though, is that these entries aren't written to describe how the audience sees them, they are written to describe how the troper who wrote them sees them. While I can see the intent of what this trope is trying to document (with video games for example, there are works like Katamari Damacy or LSD: Dream Emulator where I can definitely say that the video game community at large sees them as very weird), in practice the wick check shows that Widget Series attracts a lot of natter and overly-flowery entries trying to play up how "weird" a show is without describing the audience as a whole's reaction.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Nov 5th 2022 at 9:11:13 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
MissConduct (Lucky 7)
#23: Nov 5th 2022 at 6:54:40 PM

[up][up]These tropes aren't meant to be insulting, but I see these tropes used as insults enough that I think it's kind of overshadowed everything else.

[up] There are a handful of works where the show's oddities are part of what makes it so beloved - you mentioned Katamari Damacy which is a good example, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure also comes to mind, and there's plenty of comedies and works engaging in Camp in general that fit this mold - wherein if you point out "hey, this is weird" the fans would be like "yeah, that's why it's awesome". They aren't So Bad, It's Good per se, for instance Katamari and JoJo's are unironically liked by millions, and the fanbase tends to accept the absurdities and the surrealism. I could see that being a valid YMMV trope (although I can't think of a catchy name - something like "Beloved For Its Strangeness" or "Our Favorite Wacky Show" just don't have good rings to them).

We would need to make sure it doesn't overlap too much with So Bad, It's Good and Narm Charm, which I think is the closest trope to what I'm suggesting.

(Oh, and for the record, I am opening up the What Do You Mean It Wasn't Wicked On Drugs Wick Check to the public, if we decide to go a route that would involve needing to finish that. I'm not abandoning the project completely, but any help would certainly be appreciated.)

Edited by MissConduct on Nov 5th 2022 at 9:59:01 AM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#24: Nov 5th 2022 at 8:30:02 PM

I'm thinking Quirky Appeal as the new name.

Kirby is awesome.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#25: Nov 5th 2022 at 10:47:47 PM

Maybe Quirky Work would work (try saying that three times fast). "Work" is broader than the use of the word "series" in the decided-on name for the abandoned Bizarro Series split and Widget Series itself, and Quirky Work would rhyme if you got rid of the "y".

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Trope Repair Shop: Widget Series rename
10th Nov '22 10:31:17 PM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to expand Widget Series to cover unusual works regardless of whether they're thought to be unusual due to cultural differences and rename it, as well as merge What Do You Mean It Wasnt Made On Drugs with it. What should Widget Series's new name be?

Total posts: 103
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