A thread offering assistance and support for tropers covering Marvel's many, many stories and characters.
This includes the shared Marvel Universe, but not the cultural Disney juggernaut known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). One of our aims is to disentangle tropes and characters from the MCU adaptations from pages about their source material.
This scope does cover Marvel comic, manga and webcomic stories, characters and tropes that are unconnected to that shared Marvel Universe - e.g. their licensed Star Wars, Alien and Predator stories.
As of September 2021, there were about 27,000 Marvel comics published across 4,900 or so different series. They started publishing in the 1940s as Timely Comics, then became Atlas Comics and - eventually - Marvel. As a consequence, Marvel have a lot of Comic Book and Characters pages on the site (and have recently started publishing Webcomics as well).
The sheer scale of this means that there's so much material (with dozens of new comics added each week) that no one troper is likely to own or read all of it - especially as there are big gaps in what's available digitally or reprinted (and licensed characters and legal issues mean that certain stories may never be reprinted at all).
And that can make troping their shared universe pretty tricky - even Marvel's own creative teams have been known to lose track now and then.
We've got tropers busily revising existing pages, while others add new information weekly as new comics are published. This thread's here to help with any queries that generates, to focus work on particular pages that could use improvement, and to help ensure that we tackle works page names and other aspects in a consistent way that makes sense to readers navigating between different Marvel-related pages (as well as following best practice for the wiki as a whole).
Feel free to post here to draw attention to relevant posts or threads elsewhere - e.g. if examples, images, captions and quotes, or spoiler policies for these pages are under discussion.
There are existing threads and standard guidelines for those topics (e.g. Image Pickin' has its own, very structured, process), and this shouldn't duplicate any of that - but tropers reading this thread may wish to vote or comment once they know about those discussions.
- If there's a consistent creative team, they should be named in the introduction. Ideally, include inkers and colorists as well as other artists.
- The page image doesn't always have to be the first issue cover.
- Pages for arcs, runs and events should include the relevant titles and issue numbers.
- Pages should include start and end dates in the introduction
- Links regarding particular characters (e.g. Wolverine) should go to their Characters page, not their ComicBook page.
- As a rule, characters in Marvel Universe continuity only get one Character page profile, regardless of how many different series they appear in. However:
- Alternate Universe and Bad Future variants may justify their own profile, and sometimes the same can be said for Split Personality scenarios.
- It may be appropriate to add a character to a relevant Character page with an intro and a link to their full profile on another page (e.g. many villains have been major characters in several different series)
- Creation of any new Character Specific Pages, and proposals to merge any of them back into other pages, should go via the Character Specific Pages cleanup thread
, but it's worth posting here as well.
- If you're splitting, merging or moving characters between different Character pages, it's worth checking with the Character Page Cleanup thread as well as posting here.
Relevant sandboxes
- Marvel Comics Sandboxes - list of relevant sandbox pages for launches, splits and mergers.
- Marvel Characters Pages: Spoiler Limits - Progress on the Character page spoiler tagging cleanup
- ComicBook Duplicate Images - Images used on multiple works pages
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2023 at 12:48:21 PM
he/him
Just to kick things off -
X-Men (Chris Claremont) could certainly use a little work, but might also benefit from some decisions about its scope.
At the moment it seems to be an umbrella over Uncanny X-Men, New Mutants and various miniseries and graphic novels. I think we already have works pages for most, if not all of them, as well as some pages for specific arcs.
I can see a Claremont era page potentially working in a similar way to the Hickman X-Men: The Krakoan Age page, but if so it needs to be better integrated with those other pages.
The main recap page that accompanied this was intended to have 200+ issue-specific recaps (hence the redlinks in the comicbook page), but only one was ever created and the recap page got cut as per ATT and forum discussion.
Which just leaves this, that last remaining recap - X-Men (Chris Claremont): Giant-Size X-Men Vol 1 #1.
As the issue that debuted the new team and reinvented the franchise, I can see that it might warrant a page of its own. But as far as I can tell, Claremont didn't write it - Len Wein did - so I really don't think we should have Claremont's name in the page name (especially as we don't need a creator name for disambiguation on this one).
Thoughts?
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 12th 2022 at 8:04:58 PM
The Formatter
Honestly the Chris Claremont page should probably just be reintegrated into the other pages.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
On a different topic -
Midnight Suns #1 is released tomorrow.
The name and concept draw on upcoming video game Midnight Suns which is in turn based on (and slightly renamed from) the 1990 Midnight Sons comics.
(The Midnight Sons ComicBook page is a redirect to Characters at the moment)
Although they're connected, it feels like using ComicBook.Midnight Suns 2022 might avoid any confusion on subpages.
Any thoughts / concerns about that?
The Formatter
You're good to go with that.
Edited by GateStarX on Sep 13th 2022 at 4:05:41 AM
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
And on another different topic...
Conscious there's likely to be a lot of new attention on the Werewolf by Night page due to the upcoming Disney+ Halloween special (Werewolf by Night (2022)).
It looks a little out of date - nothing in the intro even acknowledges the 2020 series. I may have a read and try to disentangle things - I think we've got the initial Marvel Spotlight stories, the 1972 series, the 1998 series, at least two arcs in the Marvel Comics Presents anthology, the MAX series, the 2020 series, and (pure speculation) a reasonable chance of a reboot once he's in the MCU.
More generally, I think when we've got a character with such a long history, there's a lot to be said for troping them so that someone who's reading about the 1972 series doesn't get caught by spoilers for 30 years later. So possibly folders for each series if they don't justify pages?
I'll try to look at the Characters.Werewolf By Night page too.
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 13th 2022 at 2:43:37 PM
Goku Black
Why is this here and not in short term projects
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Partly because it's going to be long-term, given the huge number of Marvel comics published since the 1940s, the huge number of works pages, and the fact they're publishing more every week (as per the detail in the first post).
Partly because when it was proposed in another thread, nobody replied to say short-term was more appropriate.
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 13th 2022 at 3:15:43 PM
he/him
Just noticed that ComicBook.Ghost Rider has a long and tangled intro and could probably benefit from some judicious editing - and a clear list of the different titles and the different Legacy Character versions in each.
Long term, there's more than enough material to justify a page for the 1973 Blaze series (80 issues) and a page for the Ketch series (90 issues) and the 2006 series (35 issues) and so on, then use this as a disambiguation and umbrella page.
I may make a start if I have time this week.
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 17th 2022 at 5:37:28 PM
The Formatter
Alrighty then.
On a unrelated note, for Dakota North, where should her post series character tropes go?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
As that's her only solo series (so far), they're probably best placed on a character page and/or in the works page for whichever series they occurred in. I'm always wary of mixing tropes from sequels (and 20 years later) with tropes on the original instalment's works page.
I think she's got a character sheet under Daredevil supporting characters at the moment, but it might make more sense to put something under Characters.Dakota North?
The Formatter
Maybe, I think the characters cleanup page has an issue with single character pages.
Also I think we need to look at Secret Wars (2015). It has alot of limited series that spawned during the event that could be split off. Also the page is Freaking Massive, so there's that.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
Another question: when a series has a dedicated Franchise page as well, how much space should the ComicBook page spend detailing the adaptations?
I'm not convinced there should be much.
(Prompted by Ghost Rider, although I think that one isn't too excessive now)
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 19th 2022 at 1:18:30 PM
The Formatter
I honestly don’t know. To my understanding, pages under the Comic Book namespace are supposed to be out specific works, while the Franchise namespace is for the entire work, including adaptions.
Franchise pages are only supposed to exist if there are works in atleast 3 different mediums E.g. Comics, tv series, and movies.
There is also the issue with the pages being about the character, rather then the work. There was an entire other project to get rid of pages that were like that, but it didn’t exactly work correctly.
Ideally, it should be that the comic page acts as a page for the series, or a hub for multiple series, while the character pages are for character tropes. The Franchise page is for multiple adaptions.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
On a different topic - one new title launched today, so I've just created a works page for it.
Which is as good an excuse as any to compile a list of the indexes that tropers should consider for new Marvel works pages.
Series.Marvel Comics being the obvious one.
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 21st 2022 at 6:16:53 PM
The Formatter
So Avengers (2023) was just created. Per the naming conventions, shouldn’t the page be The Avengers Jed Mac Kay? With Avengers (2023) and The Avengers (2023) as redirects?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
There seemed to be a preference for year vs. writer name last time this was flagged.
I think I’d generally agree with that - e.g. we know it's 2023, but the writer may change mid-run, as happened with the Donny Coates Hulk.
The Formatter
So should it be moved over? I’d like to keep symmetry with the other pages.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
I think the first question is whether it goes to the cutlist - for a pre-release work, there's a lot there that might get challenged.
Big Bad assumptions, a Status Quo Is God example stating that half the team's changed, Vagueness Is Coming and The Bus Came Back examples applied to creator and promo rather than the work. A lot of those seem like grey areas where I'm not personally sure about usage, but they still feel like they'll get comments sooner or later?
If ~ProfessorMagic89 has no concerns, I think we should actively take it (and possibly some of the other pre-release Marvel stuff) to New Work Page Workshop for some review and feedback, so we can get the pages into a great state before issue 1 lands?
I have no concerns, Mrph 1.
Feel free to move it (and any other Marvel pre-release pages) to the New Work Page Workshop for review and feedback.
Edited by ProfessorMagic89 on Jan 20th 2023 at 3:56:30 AM
The Formatter
As it’s a pre-release page atm, I personally don’t see any misuse, but then again I’m not up to date on pre release trope rules. I think it might be wise to go the the other thread though. The only thing I’m insistent on though it that “The” needs to be added to the name.
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
Posted here - let's see what the feedback is.
Annoyingly, Marvel have used both The Avengers and Avengers in initial promos, so we might need to wait and see which one ends up as the official title.
he/him
While I'm here -
I'm currently trying to get the Gambit character page reshuffled to support a ComicBook.Gambit Marvel Comics overview/disambig page and some series-specific works pages.
All feedback on the new Comic Book page welcome.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 21st 2023 at 5:28:49 PM
The Formatter
I’ve been seeing your progress and I think it looks great. My only complaint is that Gambit: King of Thieves isn’t Gambit 2012, but I get that that would conflict with the film. That’s just my OCD kicking in. Other than that my only additions would maybe be a characters page and a more direct link to Gambit’s character page.
One thing I would like to mention while we’re talking about the X-Men pages, the solo pages for them start with “X-Men” instead of “Marvel Comics”. Should though be moved over?
It's gonna be fun on the bun!
he/him
Yeah, Gambit2012 was my first choice as well. But it's easier to disambig the comic name than the film, so...
I've left a comment on the X-Men character page discussion to ask if Gambit's supporting cast are already troped anywhere. If nobody replies, I'll assume not and start work on that. Probably possible to do them all in just one page, but we can split allies/antagonists if need be.
If we need to go past that, maybe guilds/allies/antagonists, as the guilds account for a lot of them.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 6:35:56 PM
A thread offering assistance and support for tropers covering Marvel's many, many stories and characters.
This includes the shared Marvel Universe, but not the cultural Disney juggernaut known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). One of our aims is to disentangle tropes and characters from the MCU adaptations from pages about their source material.
This scope does cover Marvel comic, manga and webcomic stories, characters and tropes that are unconnected to that shared Marvel Universe - e.g. their licensed Star Wars, Alien and Predator stories.
As of September 2021, there were about 27,000 Marvel comics published across 4,900 or so different series. They started publishing in the 1940s as Timely Comics, then became Atlas Comics and - eventually - Marvel. As a consequence, Marvel have a lot of Comic Book and Characters pages on the site (and have recently started publishing Webcomics as well).
The sheer scale of this means that there's so much material (with dozens of new comics added each week) that no one troper is likely to own or read all of it - especially as there are big gaps in what's available digitally or reprinted (and licensed characters and legal issues mean that certain stories may never be reprinted at all).
And that can make troping their shared universe pretty tricky - even Marvel's own creative teams have been known to lose track now and then.
We've got tropers busily revising existing pages, while others add new information weekly as new comics are published. This thread's here to help with any queries that generates, to focus work on particular pages that could use improvement, and to help ensure that we tackle works page names and other aspects in a consistent way that makes sense to readers navigating between different Marvel-related pages (as well as following best practice for the wiki as a whole).
Feel free to post here to draw attention to relevant posts or threads elsewhere - e.g. if examples, images, captions and quotes, or spoiler policies for these pages are under discussion.
There are existing threads and standard guidelines for those topics (e.g. Image Pickin' has its own, very structured, process), and this shouldn't duplicate any of that - but tropers reading this thread may wish to vote or comment once they know about those discussions.
Relevant sandboxes
Edited by Mrph1 on Sep 1st 2023 at 12:48:21 PM