By "social media" we mean any large computer network that allows people to interact in shared communities. The big ones of course are Facebook, Twitter (X), and Instagram, but we can't forget newer platforms like Discord and Slack.
Dedicated video sites are off-topic here and YouTube has its own separate thread
.
What we should discuss in this OTC topic are news items, business operations, and activities by the networks themselves, not specific things posted by users. Those should go into threads appropriate to the subjects of those posts. For example, if an actor tweets about a film, we'd discuss that in the Media forum topic for the film, not here. If Facebook changes its policies, that could be discussed here.
The politics, motives, competency and wider business activities of the owners and leaders of social media companies (e.g. Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg) are also off-topic — except in situations where they are directly making specific policy for the platform.
Talking about a particular Instagram policy change (or a high-profile ban on a specific user) directly announced by Mark Zuckerberg would be acceptable in this thread, speculating about Zuckerberg's wider motivations wouldn't be.
The thread's also not about "dumb thing [public figure] said on [social media platform]". If there isn't a specific thread related to the subject of the statement (e.g. US Politics), then it's probably gossip and not worth talking about.
created back in 2020 that we never opened. Unfortunately, it's a little stale, so bumping it isn't going to work very well, but I would like to restart it. The reason I'm doing so is that the Computer Thread seems to have become the de facto place for this sort of talk, and it's a big tonal clash with talking about computer tech.
The hot topic of the day is Elon Musk's bid to acquire Twitter. We first discussed it in the Computer Thread, starting roughly here, and I am not going to rehash the entire discussion. Instead, I am going to resume from the last post:
CNBC: Twitter is reportedly taking another look at Musk takeover bid
Twitter's board is reportedly meeting with Elon Musk and may seek to negotiate on his buyout offer. Musk claims to have secured $46 billion in funding to buy the company at a valuation of $43 billion and is preparing to make a tender offer to its shareholders.
While the board has passed a poison pill, it could be facing resistance to that from groups of shareholders and will want to talk things out rather than face a hostile takeover. It's also possible that Twitter's stock could crash if the offer fails to go through.
Another possible topic was originally posted here.
Ars Technica: EU to unveil landmark law to force Big Tech to police illegal content
Following on from the recently passed Digital Markets Act, which requires large tech companies to unbundle first-party software from hardware platforms, the proposed Digital Services Act will require medium and large social media platforms and search engines to police hate speech and disinformation while adding additional protections for children against targeted marketing.
It also bans "dark patterns", which manipulate or trick people into clicking on ads or other content. The article doesn't explicitly say what that means, but I assume it includes things like disguising ads to look like parts of a site's user interface, hiding "close" buttons, and such.
For large companies, the requirements would go into effect immediately. For medium companies, they would have a grace period to implement the changes.
Thierry Breton, the EU’s internal market commissioner, has warned that Big Tech has become “too big to care.”
This phrase, "too big to care", intrigues me. It's an indictment of the idea that these companies have decided that growth and engagement metrics overwhelm any sense of social responsibility.
In my opinion, a law like this would be impossible in the United States, since it would be challenged (likely successfully) on First Amendment grounds.
Edited by Mrph1 on Dec 12th 2023 at 11:24:56 AM
Redmess
The announcement that Musk has officially bought Twitter has hit the evening news, so that settles that, at least.
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And yeah, that does not sound like a Democrat to me. I can see him supporting the next Republican candidate, whoever that may be.
Edited by Redmess on Apr 25th 2022 at 2:31:33 PM
Optimism is a duty.
Lost in Space
Worth noting that the sale would not be completed until the end of this year at the earliest possible date. No Trump tweets for the 2022 election, even if Musk is inclined to give him his account back, which I still doubt.
As far as his political inclinations, has anyone asked Jeff Bezos, who owns the Washington Post, or Mark Zuckerberg, who owns Facebook, how they vote? I'm only slightly sarcastic; I don't know if those questions have ever come up publicly.
- Musk had a very fruitful relationship with the Obama administration, which oversaw NASA's awards of business to SpaceX and the Department of Energy's loan to Tesla.
- He very much did not like Trump, having been invited to the administration's "CEO council" and then leaving in a huff when it turned out to be useless. He was strongly against Trump's energy policy. He enjoyed a close relationship with Jim Bridenstine, Trump's NASA Administrator, but Bridenstine was a rare good apple in the rotten fruit basket: quite possibly the only good political decision the Orange One ever made.
- The Biden administration has pointedly snubbed both Tesla and SpaceX up until recently, siding visibly with unions. During Biden's administration, unprompted attacks from Democrats like Warren and Sanders on Musk's wealth and on "billionaires in space" have been making headlines and certain NHTSA appointees have been critical of Tesla's approach to autonomous vehicles. Finally, COVID responses forced Tesla to close its factories around the world for significant periods.
So if we're going to assign political leanings to Elon Musk, it's whatever helps him succeed in his business goals. What makes the current situation unique is that I don't think we've ever had someone owning a major social media network who did not have a profit motive for that ownership.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 25th 2022 at 8:47:52 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Goddamn, Trump is gonna be back on Twitter, and Musk is probably gonna start a hashtag with "Trump did nothing wrong" and make it trend by artificially propping it up. Not sure if he'll even regulate death threats and other internet crimes. Even if the FBI gets involved if they see a crime is plotted on Twitter, Musk is basically immune to the law because of his wealth.
Hopefully Twitter goes the way of Myspace and everyone gets on some other service. But I don't see it happening unfortunately.
People rightfully give Jeff Bezos shit for his record and the terrible right-wing way he treats his employees, (bad pay, terrible working hours, anti-union) and Mark Zukerburg got put into court for being okay with misinformation on his platform.
Edited by Wildcard on Apr 25th 2022 at 8:49:40 AM
Now you're just being disingenuous. Bezos and Zuckerberg are just as hated and distrusted as Musk. If not even more so.
Lost in Space
Yeah but do they vote Democrat or Republican?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
ill go on record as saying i would be just as upset no matter which of the human wyrms was the one with absolute power over a public platform
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I can’t say I know, but I don’t believe it’s strictly relevant to the conversation, the topic of which is Musk’s ownership of Twitter.
@Fighteer: Bezos contributed to the Democrat party years ago, but hasn't voted in a while as far as I can see and rarely votes. He is very republican when it comes to his company, but if he has voted Republican he has done it in secret.
Zuckerburg says some liberal things, but hasn't declared himself aligned with either party. But many on the left denounce him for his lack of action on misinformation. He is okay with Ring-Wing fake news as long as it makes him money.
Both of them can be considered rather Right-Wing at least in most areas of public life.
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
I dont really see the point in speculating on famous/influential people's political leanings unless they themselves are explicit about them. Plus someone being a Democrat doesn't make them a better person.
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Harvey Weinstein was (is?) a Democrat, yes?
Oh God! Natural light!
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
Hell Trump was one to. It's easy to fall into tribalism when it comes to party loyalty but we have to understand that the internal makeup of political parties are diverse. Most moderates within the Dems and Reps are probably more centrist than you realise. Also neither party is foundationally radical and they both could be considered pro-status quo.
I always find it funny when conservative news sources label Democrats as socialists and left-wing. I dont really see the same behaviour in more liberal news sources but Im sure some mislabeling exists somewhere.
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
There was a time when being Centrist and a Republican was a thing that’d make sense.
Now it’s increasingly clear the Alt-Right control things and actively seek to make things worse, so the Centrist Republicans aren’t even Pro-Status Quo anymore as long as they actively back or hinder attempts to punish them. Cause Alt-Right just want to make things worse.
That’s where the Democrats vary amongst them, you’ve got the other side that is actively worse by default.
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Oh definitely. The problems had been going on for decades.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 25th 2022 at 6:52:33 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
Oh it goes back further then the modern Alt-Right movement. The Evangelicals were the first minor faction to greatly influence the political course of the Republicans. Small but far-reaching, they knew how to motivate voters.
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
Jupiterian Local
This is literally whataboutism. It's irrelevant to the question of Elon Musk's positions and how they'll affect Twitter policy once he owns it. "But what about Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg?" is an attempt to change the subject instead of addressing it.
Ultimately, Musk's stated positions are concerning for Twitter as a social media platform because he has emphasized freedom of speech over protecting vulnerable people from harassment, and he has expressed agreement with misinformation that has spread largely through social media (vaccine mandates are unnecessary, mask mandates are tyranny, etc).
Whether Musk personally liked Trump or not is irrelevant. Whether Musk has voted for (or donated to) Republicans and/or Democrats (and how much and how recently) is irrelevant.
What people are concerned about is the specific positions he has expressed in his own words, and how that will guide his policy decisions once he controls Twitter, and how that will affect the rest of the world in terms of allowing misinformation and harassment to spread freely.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Trump was a Democrat until a black man dared make fun of him.
Anyways Here's Darude Sandstorm
He did say he wants his critics to stay on the platform. Whether they do or not has yet to be seen. Maybe his ideas of free speech are so simplistic that he actually won't censor dissidents. However, I also feel that's giving him too much credit. Whenever a powerful person buys a media outlet, the biases of that outlet inevitably shift.
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
A coherent contradiction
I agree with what has been said already: Musk political affiliation is Musk Party. He has some nebolous ideas about "absolute freedom and the like", but in the end his main objective is his benefit and/or very often the attention, and if it is the trolling kind all the better.
In some moment he probably saw that the far-right Internet horde laughs all his "how do you do fellow kids" memes, adores him and even doesn't question his totally wholesome business and personal practices, and so he decided to side with them.
In either this or the computer thread it has been debated the question about the need or not of a PR team for him and his companies. I'll say that won't be necessary, for he has Fighteer, with their sword and shield, ready to jump at the action.
But seriously, his most rabid fans on the Internet (and some even in RL) act like a cult of personality too many often. And their modus operandi is very similar to the aforementioned alt-right trolls, there's definetly an overlap here.
Into the Unknown
Honestly, with the kinds of things he follows and says, nobody should be buddy-buddy with Elon Musk. He should be shut out, his business practices scrutinized examined and dissected, and his ill-gotten wealth looked into. Billionaires like him are the slime that dwells on people's shoes. They get places not by honest effort, but by sticking to things.
Lost in Space
Jovian, the implication given by the question of Musk's affiliation is whether he would unban Donald Trump "because Republican". Nobody else gets asked this question, ergo it is a "gotcha".
To be clear, I am not a fan of Musk for his scintillating personality or his political views. I am a believer in the things that he is attempting to do (with the exception of cryptocurrency). This Twitter thing was not on my magic 8-ball, and I have no idea how it is going to turn out. I want the bots gone. Whether that is worth the other things that may happen is an open question.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 25th 2022 at 11:07:16 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
People think he’d unban Trump because he’s said that Twitter is bad for restricting speech, and of the few things Twitter actually has done in terms of moderation, the single highest-profile one is banning Trump.
We are simply taking him at his word. If speech on social media should not be restricted, then Trump should be allowed on Twitter.
Edited by Galadriel on Apr 25th 2022 at 8:16:33 AM
Lost in Space
I mentioned this before, but it probably got lost. The reason people are speculating that Musk decided to "fix" Twitter was not its banning of Trump but its banning of The Babylon Bee.
The problem with all of this doomsaying and general speculation is that it is misinformed. I see it as my obligation to correct that misinformation. I can't tell people what to think, but I can at least present the facts.
Once again, he did not say that speech should be unrestricted in all circumstances. I shall once again link to his actual words on the matter...
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 25th 2022 at 11:06:33 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I've read the words you put on the page Fighteer, still don't think it is doomsaying to assume he'll treat Twitter like any other business he runs. Don't think he would do day-to-day moderation, but still think he is going to force hashtags, say Trump didn't do wrong and reinstate him even if he doesn't like him personally.
Professional Forum Ninja
And don't forget to add personally shadow banning his popular critics.
Where are we expecting Musk to fall on free speech when it comes to high schoolers tracking publicly available information about his plane and/or people who disagree with him? In other words, he's already tried to buy the silencing of information that's personally embarrassing; launched a slander campaign against a rescue worker because he felt personally offended by him; used Twitter to manipulate stock; and made posts supporting the ongoing attempts to delegitimize Biden's presidency.
Facebook still has far too much power in the political realm for a private corporation, but at least it's starting to be recognized. Twitter needs to be gutted and regulated the same way, whether Musk owns it or not. The only difference between the two is that this oligarch was an oligarch before obtaining a social media site to control.
To use a metaphor, if you frequent an open-mic dinner club and there's a guy in the back who does a lot of heckling people, your first reaction upon finding out he's now the owner probably isn't "oh good, now he'll be quiet".
Edited by RedSavant on Apr 25th 2022 at 10:06:57 AM
It's been fun.
friendly reminder that Musk has supported far-right trucker protests and passive-aggressively called on his followers to vote out Democrats.
Newsweek: Elon Musk Tweets 'Vote Them Out' After Slamming Joe Biden As 'Sock Puppet'
Key passages: