Chronicles of Narnia

Susan goes to Mature Narnia, Aslan just hasn't told the others about it yet.

The only reason Digory couldn't go back to Narnia through the Wardrobe was because he knew about it, not because he was an adult. Ironically, if you know the Wardrobe is a portal you can't use it.

Hell, anyone who has the rings can theoretically reach Narnia. All the Pevensives minus Susan, Digory, Polly, Eustace and Jill were all at that train station because Digory and Polly were going to hand off Eustace and Jill the rings so they could go to Narnia.

Edited by PhiSat on Jan 17th 2024 at 3:09:33 AM

Those are all in universe reasons. The kids usually go to Narnia when they are playing and when they are unsupervised. Lewis used to play with his brother about a make believe land with talking animals. That is in part the inspiration for Narnia.

it is funny how lewis put a lot of stuff in Naria that would feel better in a sci fi, the forest is pretty much a multiverse nexus, Charm is very much a ecumopolis that is orbiting a red star. even in a fantasy lewis was pretty much a sci fi author

The lines between sci-fi and fantasy works were a lot blurrier back then. Sci-fi was a very new genre.

Obviously that's the Doyalist perspective. The Watsonian perspective is that in-universe there's nothing stopping Digory or Polly or the Pevensives from using the rings except that Aslan said the Pevensives were not going back to Narnia and they wanted to adhere to Aslan's wishes.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 5th 2024 at 12:27:07 PM

A bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. Aslan told them they wouldn't, and they took it as meaning they weren't allowed to, so they didn't, so Aslan was right.

It's easy being a prophet about some things when people take your word as the gospel.

Granted, Aslan's words are literal gospel.

Yeah, also what happen to the rings exactly? I forgot about them

I'd assume they'd be in Polly and Diggory's possession or something like that.

No, they were buried with the golden apple, the tree was made into the wardrobe when it fell over during a storm, but the roots and the rings were still there.

It is worth noting that in Book 7, the rings were not used.

The Seven Friends of Narnia just died, and their souls were transported by Aslan to Narnia; they did not pass by that forest between worlds first.

It is unclear if using the rings, when you have been told specifically by the all-powerful Aslan that you can't enter Narnia, will work.

Edited by jawal on Feb 5th 2024 at 11:12:36 AM

They sure aren't working anymore as far as Narnia is concerned. No puddle left to jump into.

Eventually someone is going to dig them up, put them on, and be very confused when they find themselves in a forest filled with nothing but trees, puddles, and guinea pigs.

Philsat: I know, but it is funny, when I was a kid I thought the barrier between sci fi and fantasy was a lot harder and I was surprise how thin it was. I have admit charm always make a impresion because it have a sort of pseudo mystery-horror because it just so....empty.

Hell, two of the biggest sci-fi franchises this past centuries were basically space westerns at heart.

Diggory and Polly had the rings. The plan was to transfer them to Eustace and Jill so they could go to Narnia after Eustace and Jill heard a plea from the Narnian king for aid. The characters were operating under the assumption that the rings would still work. They didn't end up trying, though, because of the train accident derailing things.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 5th 2024 at 4:53:44 AM

This is my point exactly: we don't know if the rings would have worked.

We know that Aslan (Jesus) told the Pevensies that they could never come back to Narnia again (The Voyage of the Dawn Treader Chapter 16, "The Very End of the World")

Since Aslan is a God, he can't be wrong, but if Edmund or Lucy used the rings successfully and went to Narnia, then he is wrong.

............

To solve this paradox, there are only three options.

1. When tried, the rings won't work, at least for the three Pevensies.

2.The rings are either stolen or the Seven Friends of Narnia won't get the chance to use them.

3.The rings actually do work, but in a Be Careful What You Wish For way. For example, the three brothers get sent to another world different from Narnia, or stuck in a time loop or something.

..............

What happened in The Last Battle is a mix of 2 and 3, The Seven Friends of Narnia didn't have the opportunity to use the rings; however, they did cross to Narnia, but not in a way that they will have anticipated or wanted.

Anyway, they were okay with the results, and they went to Paradise with their friends and loved ones, so all is well that ends well.

Edited by jawal on Feb 5th 2024 at 1:19:58 PM

I mean, the paradox is resolved in the same way that most free will paradoxes are solved; Aslan already knows Edmund and Lucy wouldn't use the rings because he told them they wouldn't be going to Narnia again and he knows all things. Edmund and Lucy, being devout Aslan-believers, don't even try because Aslan told them. They could theoretically go, but don't want to disobey Aslan, so they don't try. It's less that they couldn't go to Narnia and more that they wouldn't (because Aslan said so).

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 5th 2024 at 5:26:45 AM

Makes sense, Aslan is omnicognisant as well.

...........

I was mostly theorizing what will happen if Peter, Edmund or Lucy tried to use the rings instead of just giving them to Eustace and Jill.

Edited by jawal on Feb 5th 2024 at 1:39:05 PM

Alternatively, Aslan knows they won't use the rings again because if they try, Aslan will send a train derailment to kill them.

Peter and Edmund had the Rings. After Tirian appears before them as an apparition, the friends of Narnia decide they need to get back there to help with whatever is going on. The Rings are the only way they can do it, but the house in London they were buried at was sold long ago so they can't just waltz into the yard and grab them. So Peter and Edmund sneak over before dawn and start digging before anyone notices. After they find them, they call up Eustace and Jill to meet them so they can use the rings to get to Narnia and do whatever needs to be done.

The kids, the old folks, and Lucy are travelling together on the train and are going to rendezvous with Peter and Edmund at the station when "there came a most frightful jerk and a noise; and there we were in Narnia," with "We" being Eustace and Jill. Eustace confirms they never even saw the Rings.

As for if the others can use the Rings, Eustace and Jill say this:

Wait, so the Rings are in the train wreck? So what happens to them next? Is some poor EMT going to find himself in that forest?

Assuming they don't get scattered by the shock, or looted by some bystanders, they will still be on Peter and Edmund's bodies.

The authorities will deliver them to the Pevensie's family; Susan will recognize them, and keep them safe.

...............

If they are looted or taken by someone else who put them on, then that someone will find himself on an adventure.

That will teach him to loot the dead.

Edited by jawal on Feb 6th 2024 at 6:32:15 PM

EMTs wear gloves. The rings are only risky if you touch them with bare skin.

Peter and Edmund don't even try to use the rings, though. Eustace and Jill posit that they can't, but they didn't even try because Aslan told them they wouldn't be going back. No one ever tries to use them because they all die in the train accident before the rings were needed. I think the rings would have worked if they'd used them, but again, Aslan is omniscient and knew the Pevensieves would adhere to his wishes and not use them.

Susan probably doesn't even know what the rings are. She's away in America and not privy to the plan. Maybe her fate is to have an adventure with them and reconnect with her old Narnian memories that way.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 6th 2024 at 10:44:46 AM

I assume that professor Kirke told the Pevenci brothers, his story, long ago, before the events of book 7.

So Susan may recognize the rings.

...........

Susan may decide to use them and try to find Narnia, but since the latter is destroyed...

Assuming the Professor told the Pevensie siblings about the Rings and Susan was still around at the time, I can her recognizing them for what they were.

And then not using them because she's convinced Narnia wasn't real.

But then something triggers her into putting one on and off to the Woods she goes. Where she alternately tries to find Narnia or get back home to Earth, but keeps getting it wrong and getting dropped off onto different worlds. Stubbornly trying to tell herself this isn't real but gradually slipping back into Queen Susan as she has a world hopping adventure.

At the end she and Aslan have a heart to heart and he takes her back to Earth, continuing her adventure in a more mundane but still meaningful way until it's her time to go to Aslan's Country.