TLP Community Issues

Can't we just put a rule in "Entries that make you LOL" and the rest of Yack Fest not to encourage popcorning? 95% of the entries on that thread are just "LOL this is a funny way to phrase this trope example" or "this is an amusing page image."

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 3:44:01 PM

When will people have the common sense to actually constructively criticize drafts instead of making the ha-ha funny out of them?

When I got there this morning it was all normal criticisms and the bomb count was reasonable. It's the people who come after everything had already been said, solely to point out that the draft is effortless/lacks examples/needs to be bombed, and then continuing to bomb it well after the point of necessity, that I don't understand. What exactly possesses people to do this?

At least with The Scottish Draft, it was made in bad-faith and we'd had precedent with "Mario Pissing" to believe that the record-breaking was harmless fun. But this is just straight up nonsensical, to continually post on and bomb obviously bad drafts when it's already been made abundantly clear not to do this.

Just let them sink, people. Ignore them. There's never a reason to comment on or bomb a draft that already has, say, 20+ bombs and several comments pointing out the issues. Just move on.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 5:34:06 AM

... This is the exact reason why I quit TLP. It baffles me that people still think popcorning and trolling is an ok thing to do with stub drafts.

Honestly, having seen the spiteful circumstances and overall poor writeup of the Scottish Draft, it's bizarre (and kind of cruel, honestly) that people treat well-intentioned standard stub drafts as "the worst thing to ever come out of TLP." Especially because a lot of the drafts attracting peanut galleries lately (including the one from today, though the idea is being covered on a better draft) are pitching concepts that aren't even that bad.

Which is why my only criticism to it was that another draft for the concept existed and was far better written; because the concept is fine.

People really ought to turn their attention away from obvious bomb-bait drafts and onto the larger drafts with actual effort. Because issues can go unnoticed if a draft seems to be well-written enough and people spend way more time ganging up on drafts that will be discarded anyway and not enough time thinking critically about anything else. (Hence why I made my experimental draft, though I might've gone overboard to where the actual purpose was ignored in favor of making a parody of bad drafts.)

There are drafts people essentially beg for feedback on that get completely ignored by everyone else, while stubs and the like attract attention like a magnet.

Here's a thought:

If you guys want decently written drafts, try helping people and giving aid to sponsors who're seeking feedback, rather than just complain about the stubs. We all hate stubs but they're really, really not that big of a deal.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 6:58:07 AM

It's because - and I've been guilty of this too - everybody wants to be involved in the TLP process, but nobody wants to read the drafts thoroughly. Stub drafts are an easy target to show off how "knowledgeable" you are about the TLP, while drafts that people need feedback on go without any concerns, which can lead to things like duplicate drafts getting launched because they otherwise look good (cough Turning Into Your Parent cough).

I feel you, man, I feel you. I need to send Turning Into Your Parent to TRS; I brought it up on Crash Rescue and we never decided to unlaunch it but I've been kind of shamefully avoiding crosswicking it because I don't trust it yet.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:06:29 AM

Or, you know, a trope with a misleading title can launch and suffer instant misuse because not a single soul on the TLP had any concerns with it whatsoever until the literal last second before launch, encouraging some sponsor to go and launch it only to then have to get it unlaunched and renamed because apparently trope descriptions don't exist.

Yes, I'm still salty about that. It's the perfect example of "Tropers don't pay attention". The entire issue could've been avoided if anyone noticed my request for title ideas and actually discussed it with me.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:03:35 AM

As you should be.

It's not the only draft of mine people refused to give any feedback on, either; two of the ones I just put UFG have strings of posts that are just me trying desperately to get someone to discuss them with me and nobody showing up.

It's actually infuriating to see people obsess over stub drafts and the like, while preaching about how the TLP needs better editors and more effort, and then see those same people ignore drafts people are actually working hard on.

Edit: Maybe we should go back through some of these stubs and ping repeat-offenders.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:06:36 AM

God, yes. Two days ago I asked a question about an old draft of mine ("Newlywed Game" Homage) because I want to rework it into a different trope, as I don't know if we need another Stock Shout-Out, and nobody responded to the question. I hate bumping drafts like crazy cuz they clutter the comment section but man, I just wanna have a discussion.

Well now I just kinda feel manipulative xD

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:11:01 AM

...BRB, I have a draft to go respond to.

That reminds me, btw, don't we have a thread for boosting TLP drafts we need feedback on? What happened to that?

We do but it doesn't get a ton of attention. If I need feedback I usually go to Crash Rescue because people actually post there.

This is one of the reasons I pitched the "TLP spotlight" idea for Trope Report. It might not actually be viable but I want a way to broadcast drafts in need of actual feedback and help, even if that's not the proper venue for it.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 23rd 2020 at 7:14:09 AM

On a lot of drafts, people just provide examples and when buzz on the draft eventually dies down, no one comments on it. Getting description feedback on drafts is a toss up

I used to bump up my drafts in batches a lot to get feedback but eh not really motivated to work on the on the older ones as much as that doesn’t really work most of the time.

Same. I have several drafts I still believe can be tropes, but I've lost motivation to work on them. Some of those are the ones I put UFG last night. I'm glad I finally managed to do something with "New School Friend" last night, albeit several months of procrastination later.

It's easy to lose interest on drafts that nobody else seems to care about.

Honestly I want the first issue of Trope Report to be a special issue on the toxicity of some of the TLP community. I don't want it to turn into a giant Author Tract, but we can talk about how giving undue attention to the bombing and dogpiling of stub drafts takes away the real effort that TLP is there for — creating and launching quality drafts with viable ideas, clear descriptions, and examples. Honestly, I think it would be an amazing thing to have.

I think TLP is like COVID: Avoid at all costs until the correct stupid-proof is implemented. And the people in charge aren't treating it like a crisis, and my mind doesn't want to think reasonably because All Crises Are Equal.

If we're able to put in tracts like that about specific wiki-issues, maybe we should. Because this is actually getting exhausting.

I love the TLP. It's genuinely one of my favorite parts of the site. It's my favorite way of contributing because I enjoy helping create brand new content and find examples of new tropes. It's just unfortunate that the culture is really very toxic and there are a lot of very glaring issues that we can't fix until the admins finally decide to do more than "emergency" fixes.

Yeah, I gave up on trying to launch the overhealing draft because nobody was giving any feedback on the title, not even a quick "yes" when I asked if I should run a crowner for it. It is really frustrating when everyone ignores your draft.

Edited by Serac on Nov 24th 2020 at 4:59:26 AM

I think my issue is that I do seek out drafts to give feedback to, but if the draft was in good condition last time I checked and had no bombs or obvious signs of a problem, I end up overlooking it because I end up assuming things are running smoothly. I wonder if other people do the same. But it gets ridiculous when drafts ask for feedback in the title/laconic and still get nothing, and the sponsor is obviously screwed either way.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 24th 2020 at 6:01:37 AM

...In other news, we still have people who've never read Work Pages Are a Free Launch spamming it whenever a work page draft is made.

Do we have to take it to TRS to rename it?

That actually wouldn't do anything because TLP comments don't show red-links, so people would still link the damn page. Even if we cut it.

I still think WPAAFL needs some degree of TRS. The fact that it's misused a lot in TLP as "Work pages are forbidden on TLP" shows that people still have a skewed view of what that page actually means.

I agree, but it's the TLP equivalent of a pothole magnet and the area's horrible coding means that even if we rewrite it, rename it, cut it, set it on fire, and send it to the same hell as Fetish Fuel and Troper Tales, people would still wick it out of ignorance. Because nobody who's used it on there has ever read the page or they'd know not to do it. So this falls into the "tropers don't read pages" trap, but worse because we can't force people to stop using it by redlinking it.