Star Trek: Lower Decks

Never heard that one. There's different versions of what happened, some people completely denied it was a royalties issue (because on one hand no one wants to look like they didn't wanted to pay the writer) some people claim it was that. But the creatores of the show always said the real reason according to them was that Locarno was irredeemable (whether is BS or not is up to you).

I do wonder to what extend the royalties issue can be true. Doesn’t all character belong to Paramount anyway? Can you really “own” a character because you write it on a script for one episode? So how come they use characters like O’Brien or Barcley or all the characters that were intended to appear on one episode and then became recurrent? Or how about the villains? Do someone owns Lore, Moriarty, the Borg Queen and gets paid everytime they’re used?

I don’t know, that royalties theory don’t convince me but I migh be wrong, I’m not a copyright lawyer or something like that.

And Michael Dorn played a Klingon lawyer in The Undiscovered Country. The expanded universe made it Worf’s grandfather.

Agree, this show LD’s writers talent and skills Up To Eleven, not seeing something that good and well-rounded since the last season finale.

But that’s the thing, Starfleet is not military. Not only are they all volunteers (not saying you can’t volunteer to a military but I’m guessing you can’t just leave whenever you want without any sort of notification) is more focus on scientific-exploratory-diplomatic labor, and most of their defense work when not in war is more similar to police work. They use navy ranks because they need some order and hierarchy on the ships, but I think the closest real life parallelism must be something akin to the Coast Guard, park rangers or the police or some of this humanitarian organizations like the Red Cross. Do you really have the same backlash if you reject promotions on the police or as a park ranger?

I'm fairly certain the character is identified as Colonel Worf in the credits and the identification as TNG Worf's grandfather was more a clarification of the exact relationship. Given that The Next Generation had been airing for several years at that point (VI debuted in '91, TNG started in '87) that particular instance is almost certainly a deliberate bonus for the fans (it's too obvious to even be called an easter egg).

Well I certainly did not expect Lower Decks the series to be that much tied with Lower Decks the episode (yeah it does seem stupid when I say it that way). I'd say Mariner's Character Arc has been impressively well handled since the beginning of this series, though I do wonder whether the writers had something like that in mind since Season 1 "I'm better than you in any single way, Boims" Mariner. I'd also never have expected Locarno to be being the mysterious abductions (then again, I don't think anybody would). Also, I really like the trend of Freeman being much more savvy than she lets on (though I have to wonder... why Billups?).

Now I'm wondering... I know that there were plans at some points to reveal that Sito Jaxa had survived (in DS9, maybe? Not sure). Lower Decks wouldn't...?

Edited by C105 on Oct 27th 2023 at 2:06:51 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

I doubt they plan so much ahead, not because of LD in particular but because of television in general is not done like that.

And regarding Mariner's act, I think the latest episode of Trek Culture has a good point in that there were some regressions on her, as she improve a lot in one season and then goes back to how she was before (and yes, I know unresolved trauma can cause that in real life).

Nah, I doubt they'll adress it at all, but knowing LD probably the joke would be something like: "Hey, Locarno, do you know that you look a lot like... Harry Kim?"

She improved because she wanted to stay in Starfleet in season 3, her current issues are caused by her promotion putting her in a position she doesn't want to be in; one of authority: aggravating her issues.

It's fun to note that Mariner is really not that different from Boimler deep down. Her rant on how she joined Starfleet to explore is almost identical to what he said in previous seasons, and there has been multiple instances of her being just as much a geek as he is and trying to hide it.

Edited by C105 on Oct 27th 2023 at 3:00:50 PM

Whatever your favourite work is, there is a Vocal Minority that considers it the Worst. Whatever. Ever!.

The Rapid-Fire Comedy means that the reveal of Mariners psychological hang-ups isn't really consistent with past behavior. She never shown an aversion to leadership roles or fear of people dying under her supervision. It's been more that she prefers independence and lack of expectation, but she takes unofficial charge all the time and puts others in danger doing so (which is far worse because she's bullying friends rather than commanding subordinates, but PTSD and hypocrisy is common).

Still, the line that really stuck with me was after Mariner laments the irrelevance of Sitos death Ma'ah is the one to say she died hoping to maintain the same Starfleet values Mariner loves. He's probably the first Klingon since Worf to combine Klingon honor and Starfleet principles.

Do you not know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weevils!

That's definitely a fair point given we just saw her lead Delta shift the previous episode and be kind of callous about Asif's injuries and the danger they were in. Though tbf, that did seem kind of out of character.

People, especially with trauma, aren't always consistent. This being a comedy series also means that sometimes things are made inconsistent for the sake of humor. But Mariner does have a pattern of putting herself in danger before others, even against orders, including since Season 1, like when she wanted to fight Vindor during the buffer time episode.

I think the way they structured Mariner's personality in light of how they decided her direction should be in Season 4, is that she stands by Star Fleet principles, thus why she wants to always stay there, but she defaults to the action-oriented badass solutions when she's able, whether because of trauma or just her standard personality, rather than being the diplomat. I think she doesn't mind that her friends and peers are placed into some danger, because this is Star Fleet, a certain amount of danger comes with the job and she comes to trust their competence to a degree, but she doesn't want to push them into a situation where they are in danger and she isn't. Part of being in charge is that you have to order subordinates to their potential doom for the good of the team/ship/Federation, if that is the most rational course of action. And she has a pattern of behavior where if someone can do the task, but potentially die and she doesn't, she tries to force it to be her, even when that is fool-hardy.

It has happened multiple times within the past few seasons. Temporal Edict, We'll Always Have Tom Paris (where she was ready to let go of Tendi's hand so she can bring the post back to T'ana), Where Pleasant Fountains Lie, First First Contact, and Grounded were from the past three seasons. Not always, but it does at least forms a light pattern that can be built to Season 4, with I have No Bones and I Must Flee, A Few More Badgeys, Caves, and the Inner Fight, where she places herself as the vanguard for everything.

Well, the nature of Mariner is the complicated fact we're meant to believe she's terrified of leadership but also a natural leader.

There's a hard issue of trying to show not living up to one's full potential.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

So anyway, I wonder what the significance of Mariner and T'Lyn figuring out that they were both at the battle with the Pakled is in "wej Duj" was about?

I must admit I didn't realise they didn't know that already. I guess it fits with Lower Deckers always being out of the loop.

I could see it easily not coming up, especially because the Vulcan captain hung up the call so quickly. The people on the bridge only saw T’Lyn for like…five seconds where she didn’t say anything and no attention was drawn to her, and then she shows up on the Cerritos a year later.

It’d be kind of weird to be like “hey, you’re a Vulcan, were you on that Vulcan ship we were in a battle fighting alongside?”

Not Three Laws compliant.

I don't think Mariner was even on the bridge during that time. If she wasn't, neither T'Lyn or her would have seen each other when the captains opened communications. Wonder if Ma'ah will also bring up his role in that little scuffle, because his actions also saved the Cerritos and the Sh'val, when he dispatched his captain in combat and took over his ship. And unlike Ma'ah's treasonous lieutenant, he had good reason and did it with honor. Having the Lower Deckers from all 3 ships, and 3 of their most prominent movers during that event would be a treat if they are able to share stories.

Very brief preview for the finale dropped on IGN, spoilers obviously:

Fun fact: the symbol on Nick's jacket which is presumably the insignia for this "Nova Fleet" is a Kolvoord Starburst, the maneuver that got him kicked out of the academy.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Oct 28th 2023 at 11:13:13 AM

I always thought that sounded like it would incentivise careerism.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable

…TENDI BETTER BE BACK NEXT SEASON!

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

Probably will. Not like they didn't do this the first 2 Seasons, with Boimler on the Titan, or Capt. Freeman getting arrested. Just a matter of determining if they'll actually do this via actions with actual stakes or will it just be another "Shaggy Dog" Story, where hi-jinx ensues, and the status quo is restored with no direct intervention from the main characters. Past behavior points towards the latter, but with 4 seasons under their belt and the potential that this may be their last season, I could see the creative team changing things up a bit. Though, this being Lower Decks, if they actually have the main characters actions matter, it will be low scale enough to not be something to warrant history books level notice.

Edited by HeyMikey on Nov 2nd 2023 at 6:22:23 AM

At least we saw how they handled the Lorcano/Paris similarity…

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

I love the look on Shak's face when Tendi challenges her sister to Mortal Kombat. So happy.

I do like that the entire alliance was made up of lower deckers from ships who fee like they were constantly ignored or given crap jobs. I feel like they are the ones who would be most unhappy and likely to do something like this.

Yeah, it’s good to see the entire crew having grown and changed, especially after what happened last season.

The Owl House and Coyote Vs Acme are my Roman Empire.

So the episode was basically trying to be one of those "every episode was secretly building to the finale" type stories. Felt it was trying to do too much in one episode, while also rushing a Star Trek II homage. Between that, revealing the endgame for Nova Fleet, Orion Combat by Champion and the actual rescue mission it was just all over the place.

A lot of good material though, I like that Mariner gets her problems figured out not because of seeing Locarno as a mirror but more because she was able to vocalize her hangups in the previous episode. Allying with Locarno is a non-starter for her, as she already dealt with her Starfleet loyalties last season. And the Cerritos crew working together had some good character moments, particularly Boimler getting his first chance in the captains chair.

I will admit that this is probably the weakest Season Finale for me, in order would be 2, 3, 1, 4.

Do you not know that in the service one must always choose the lesser of two weevils!

Hah.

Foiled by Ferengi greed.

But man, the deep cuts from this series never ceases to amaze me.

One Strip! One Strip!