On the subject of Notifiers (and how to improve them)

(x4) This is great

Had to make a minor fix to be a little more clear:

• Hi there. Your [page] edit has some indentation issues. Lone subbullets are never allowed, and all examples for a work or trope should be on the same indentation level. Please have a look at the Example Indentation in Trope Lists article to learn more about how we'd like to keep things organized.

Basically I'd just forgot to mention tropes.

(ETA: nvm i figured it out)

Edited by worldwidewoomy on Nov 1st 2023 at 6:11:32 AM

hi all

not sure if this counts as a Notifier since it isnt a PM, but i was told to come here

i notice some works have "Tropes for characters go on the Character/(work)" sheet notices; sometimes they get added and taken down (usually by the same editor)

is there a policy against leaving them up? i feel like it isnt like the "speculative notice" thing (which i feel is super obnoxious but that is for another post for another day) as i dont think many tropers frequent the character pages as much despite policy shifting

I keep seeing people putting non-YMMV tropes in YMMV, and I'm getting increasingly annoyed with not having a notifier for this. Here's a draft to finally merge the Trivia and YMMV notifier into a catch-all "What Goes Where":

• Hi, there. Your edit on [[page]] appears to violate What Goes Where on the Wiki. Please pay attention to the intended placement of examples. Trivia and YMMV pages have banners telling you which page they belong on, as well as icons to direct you to the proper place. Non-bannered pages are regular tropes, and they cannot be placed outside of main work pages. If you aren't sure where to place an example, try checking at Ask The Tropers or the forums. Thanks!

It's not perfect but

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 17th 2023 at 10:57:08 AM

oh yes.

"regular tropes, and they cannot be placed outside of main work pages"

This may be confused as not being allowed on characters and recap subpages, also feel like something's missing.

• Hi, there. Your edit on [[page]] appears to violate What Goes Where on the Wiki. Please pay attention to the intended placement of examples. Trivia, YMMV and Flame Bait items have page banners that indicate which subpage they belong to. Sugar Wiki, Darth Wiki and certain "Moments" items belong to own subpages and not YMMV. Conversely, if the trope doesn't have a banner, it's not an example for a Trivia or YMMV subpage. Creator pages don't use the Trivia subpage and it's mixed in with the main list, while YMMV is not allowed with an exception. If you aren't sure where to place an example, try checking at Ask The Tropers or the forums. Thanks!

Edited by Amonimus on Nov 17th 2023 at 9:41:49 PM

That's much better

Example is just referencing another trope. A.k.a Pointing out the How to Write an Example Example Don'ts: "Don't Refer to Other Items on the Page".

• Hi, there. The [page] edit you made is lacking independent context. Please feel free to rewrite that entry to explain how it matches the definition instead of just pointing the reader elsewhere.

Or should I just use ZCE and personalize it at need?

Yeah, Zero-Context Example already lists that as a type of ZCE and goes into detail about it.

Any plans to swap "YMMV" and "Trivia" for "What Goes Where"?

latest draft:

Flame Bait doesn't go on a subpage. Could either change 'subpage' to 'page' or separate Flame Bait into another sentence.

This sentence needs reworking, but I can't think of how right now.

(There are also a couple other tweaks needed that I can see^note the ""Moments" items" sentence, pages that could be linked, but those are simple enough)

So, something like this, with some parts edited and a sentence moved elsewhere?

Hi, there. Your edit on [[page]] appears to violate What Goes Where on the Wiki. Please pay attention to the intended placement of examples. Trivia and YMMV examples come with tags to direct you to the correct subpage. Creator pages don't use trivia pages and incorporate the items into the list, while YMMV is not allowed with an exception. Flame Bait tags means the trope should only be kept on flame-bait pages. Sugar Wiki, Darth Wiki, Fridge, and "Moments" belong on their own subpages. Conversely, if the trope doesn't have a banner, it's not an example for a Trivia or YMMV subpage. If you aren't sure where to place an example, try checking at Ask The Tropers or the forums. Thanks!

I do wonder if the part about creator pages is actually needed; I'm struggling to find a non-clunky way to word it and IDK if it's necessary to make room in a notifier just to discuss a rather niche aspect of the rule. Without it, this is how it reads:

Hi, there. Your edit on [[page]] appears to violate What Goes Where on the Wiki. Please pay attention to the intended placement of examples. Trivia and YMMV examples come with tags to direct you to the correct subpage. Flame Bait tags means the trope should only be kept on flame-bait pages. Sugar Wiki, Darth Wiki, Fridge, and "Moments" belong on their own subpages. Conversely, if the trope doesn't have a banner, it's not an example for a Trivia or YMMV subpage. If you aren't sure where to place an example, try checking at Ask The Tropers or the forums. Thanks!

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 13th 2023 at 1:56:49 PM

Your proposed writeup seems fine.

Agreed, that's good.

Which version? With or without the Creator Page part?

Either is fine, but I think that adding the Creator Page part might be more useful as it's more informative.

Inspired by an incident where I couldn't find a suitable notifier, I would like to propose a notifier for illegal meta on Moments pages (Moment of Awesome, Funny Moments, Heartwarming Moments etc.).

Here's the custom notifier I ended up sending (with the page redacted), which will serve as the first draft:

• The edit you made on [[page]] was a meta example on a Moments page. Such examples are not allowed. Moments of any kind are reactions to events taking place within the work itself; events external to the work don't count.

Maybe replace "meta" with "out-of-universe" or "real life", since I didn't know what "meta" meant until it was explained to me. Or maybe you could add an explanation for what "meta" means.

It's not about real-life though. "Meta" is the only word for it since not every moments item bans real life. "Out-of-universe" may work, but that implies that the reactions are IUEO.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 16th 2023 at 3:36:38 PM

I was thinking that a notifier for when people do things like add a folder or section to a page that lacks any tropes, or when a works page is made that lacks tropes, would be useful.

Maybe it could be called "Lack of examples" or something like that.

The second part is under Stub Page.

2 things:

1. Any more concerns or feedback for the "What Goes Where" draft?
2. Should we amend "Not a Trope" once more to mention that disambigs are green, giving people something to look out for if they didn't already know?

1. This version without the Creator Page part looks good!

2. That would be useful, yes. It's weird how easily some inexperienced Tropers miss it. I would add a note recommending use of the "Preview" button to check that they haven't inadvertedly potholed a disambig, provided such advice doesn't already exist.

Edited by Riolugirl on Dec 22nd 2023 at 5:50:47 PM

x3 As for the first portion?