General Automotive Thread

There's a kind of calculus to politics and I don't envy anyone who has to work through it. Please this group, please that group, horse-trade the interests of one bloc of voters for another's. I guess Biden is more concerned with losing union workers than alienating people who are interested in buying electric vehicles, and if that's how he wants to play the game, fair enough.

This was all before Musk went openly right-wing, by the way, so while it may be an excuse now, it wasn't then. It was purely a union thing.

Edit: GM CEO Mary Barra is no Elon Musk in terms of net worth, but she did earn $29 million in 2022.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 25th 2023 at 8:45:20 AM

Yeah. And even before Musk went openly right-wing, he had a pattern of pretty over the top union busting. The thing though is that I don't really buy the idea that Biden really alienated people who want to buy electric cars. If someone really is that petty that their preferred car company was just...not praised (he didn't mention Tesla at all, but he also didn't mention anyone else, IIRC) that it's enough that they stop voting Democrat, they were probably not a reliable vote to begin with. It's never really worth trying to appease people like that, because you'll always stumble on some random unpredictable hang-up that'll get them to turn on you for what looks like a really stupid reason.

The UAW and the families and friends of members are a reliable and election tipping Democrat voter bloc in the states where it's got a prominent presence, so appeasing them is more important than appeasing a few million people mostly scattered around blue states.

I don't think Biden handled it super great, but I also don't think that picking Tesla would have been a good move.

I also think GM and Ford are being deeply stupid about a lot of the union demands and that they caused a lot of this problem because they're using electric vehicles as an excuse to undermine unions, seemingly using Musk's active hostility and Rivian's complete indifference as an excuse to pretend that electric vehicles don't need union workers and so shouldn't have them.

Edited by Zendervai on Oct 25th 2023 at 8:51:55 AM

I don't see it quite that way - it's not about electric vehicles per se. It's about taking any opportunity to squirm out from under the UAW by building new factories that aren't unionized. EVs are just the excuse. (It clearly didn't work for GM, as its Tennessee Ultium plant voted to unionize.)

I'm looking at it from a purely practical perspective. Tesla is eating everyone else's lunch in the United States to such a degree that it ought to be embarrassing. I'm not even talking about quality — although despite what the zeitgeist seems to believe, Tesla repeatedly gets top marks in both customer satisfaction and safety. I'm talking about the simple fact that the future of auto production is electric and the Big Three are so far behind that they may not even finish the race. (Ford is the only one that currently stands a chance in my opinion.)

So much for their vaunted "expertise" in manufacturing that was going to catch up "any year now". They can't even make EVs at a gross profit. This is a full-blown "Emperor is naked" situation. The UAW stuff is a sideshow relative to the big picture. It is certainly capable of dragging them even farther behind, but it's not the underlying problem.

If I were in these companies' C-suites, I'd stop dicking the unions around, give them as much as necessary to get them back on the job, and go all-in to fix my electrification problems even if it meant "harming" shareholders. But that's probably why I'm not in the C-suite.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 25th 2023 at 9:27:08 AM

Many outlets, including CNBC, are reporting that Ford, UAW negotiators reach labor deal, pending union leadership approval

Alright. That's one down, two to go. By closing first, Ford gets a head start over its rivals in restarting vehicle production, an important advantage.

How much of an advantage is that head-start? Like, say it take GM and Chrysler an extra week to strike a deal — how many extra vehicles does that give Ford?

Unclear, but it puts a lot of pressure on GM and Stellantis to close before the lead builds.

News reports are suggesting that GM and Stellantis have matched Ford's offer to the UAW of a twenty-five percent pay raise over four years. This is as I expected: once Ford fell, the rest of the dominos went quickly.

The deals have yet to be ratified by the union, but that seems likely.

For those interested, a documentary features Carlos Ghosn (ex-Nissan CEO) is being featured via Apple. It mentions of his arrest and how he was forced to leave Japan despite being under arrest.

Some news that broke it.

Edited by Ominae on Jan 24th 2024 at 3:54:14 AM

The Team House had an interview with Mike Taylor, the ex-Green Beret who helped smuggled Ghosn out of Japan.

The interview's very long. You can start at 1:17:15 since that goes into details on the Ghosn case and his involvement in it.

Sanctioned Ivan made a video regarding the rise of the Moskvitch 3 and the Moskvitch 6(for instance). That's basically a rebranding of the Sehol X4 and the Sehol A5 Plus from China.

Random ranting.

I really hate how so many cars I love end up getting discontinued, one of my biggest personal tragedy being that of Audi R8.

Of course it's a natural and understandable change, yeah, but I find it disheartening that naturally aspirated sports cars will be a relic of the past. XP

EDIT: Also, the older, original R8 had much better design in my opinion.

Edited by dRoy on Mar 7th 2024 at 11:25:09 PM

https://archive.is/qPuyf

Putting this Blooomberg article (it's locked, so had to use an archived page) on Chinese-made electric vehicles potentially heading to the US (and Canada).

There's a suggestion that if BYD wants to markets its non-bus-based vehicles, they can set up a plant in Mexico and use it to take advatange of the USMCA tariffs.

I don't get the appeal of wood paneling on cars.

I don't either, but it's a matter of taste I guess.

Motor1: Volvo Kills the Diesel Engine Forever

Exaggerated headline aside, Volvo has indeed ceased production of diesel engines. The final XC90 that will ever be built rolled off of the production line this week, headed for a museum. This is a solid win for environmental concerns even though other manufacturers continue to build diesel-engine passenger cars.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 27th 2024 at 11:05:40 AM

Nowadays, probably because it looks less cheap than plastic moulding? Personally, I just think a nice varnished woodgrain is preferable to whatever greyscale metallic or plastic surface you'd otherwise have on things in general... but that usually leads to some cheap vinyl cover and that's no good either.

Random musing:

There was a time when I was really, REALLY obsessed wtih supercars and dreamt of buying one. Well, a lot more than I am right now, that is.

And then I realized: Just because you have the MONEY to own one...doesn't necessarily mean you also have the SKILL to drive one properly.

,,,I still would love to own either Porsche 911 or Cheverolet Corvette C8, though.