General Automotive Thread

So after looking around I can't say I was able to find one of these, which is rather surprising for something that so greatly affects the day to day life's of so many people world wide. Not one, but two threads existed for self driving cars but none for just general purpose automotive discussion... Basically any thing from road laws, to maintenance, general care, or even the cars themselfs... It seems to be an interesting topic to hear input on from around the world.

Lets start things off with a simple topic, who do you guys feel makes the best cars for there price and why?

Well, whilst I have an interest in cars and car shows, my input is going to be somewhat limited by "I only recently found myself able to afford driving lessons".

However, best cars for their price...? That would really have to depend on what market segment you're thinking about. It feels wrong to have a question that requires ignoring all performance vehicles or all hatchbacks because nobody's thinking about the same purpose.

My experience is that old low mileage cars tend to be undervalued.

Here is Detroit we are having the annual "Dream Cruise", which is when people with classic cars cruise up and down our main drag for two weeks showing off their cars. You will find a lot of them parked along the avenue as well. They sell a lot of merchandise.

Recently, I've been into 1970's muscle cars.

Best new car for the price? Probably a Lexus, although if you look at online ratings for a particular category, it will almost always be a Honda. Personally, I don't like contemporary styling. To me, all cars look alike, a function of the fact that every car manufacturer uses the same suppliers for the parts.

The last car that has any aesthetic character is probably the Jeep. The problem with jeeps is that they tend not to have the greatest rate of repair record, and they depreciate quickly.

A ten year old Volvo is probably the best all around compromise.

Edited by DeMarquis on Aug 11th 2019 at 2:03:25 PM

Jeep... aesthetic character... these two things don't belong in the same sentence. Always has been horrible to look at and that's showing no signs of changing.

I don’t know, I’ve always liked the Jeep aesthetic. Functional, but still a little design-y.

The point is, love 'em or hate 'em, they have a distinctive look.

Doug Demuro has finally reviewed the Ariel Atom:

and Koenigsegg broke their 0-400 KM/H and 0-400-0 records again, this time with the Regera:

as for the top speed record, watch to the end of the video

and here's the inboard uncut video of the Regera's 0-400-0 run:

Best long-term value for the price is a Tesla Model 3, by far. If Full Self Driving matures to at least Level 4 in the next few years and robo-taxis become a reality, your car may be able to pay for its own cost several times over. This is a very big "if". In the meantime, the savings in fuel, maintenance, and carbon emissions over the lifetime of the car are worth the extra sticker price by themselves.

(Cross-posted to EV thread)

Teslarati: Tesla Dashcam resolves accident between Model 3 and Motorcycle

Thanks to the 360-degree camera system on the Tesla, it can capture video of traffic incidents, allowing "he-said, she-said" cases to be fairly litigated. The motorcyclist in this video appears to intentionally collide with the car, but sued for damages in court, claiming that the driver of the Tesla Model 3 changed lanes without signaling. Moreover, the rider brought "witnesses" to support his claim.

Not only does the camera footage prove the motorcyclist lied, but it also proves that the witnesses in question could not possibly have seen the accident. Charges were dropped, and the Tesla owner is not liable for any damages.

This adds to the increasing pile of incidents involving Teslas where someone has committed fraud or vandalism but been caught due to camera footage from the car.

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 22nd 2019 at 3:12:34 PM

Doug Demuro just released his review of the Mc Laren P1:

i'll post the his review of the greatest car of all time and the Senna as well:

I used to be really into watches, especially high-end automatic watches. Then I realized that most people I talk to (men in 20s and 30s) don't really care about them all that much. So I got a suggestion to have more interest in cars instead.

I thought about buying either Toyota Prius or Camry. I had a soft spot for the latter because just how spacious it was, which I consider one of the big factors in my choice for cars.

Then the Toyota recall crisis happened and I'm now looking for other brands. Maybe one by Ford or Chevrolet.

My dream cars will always be Skyline GT-Rs, GT-Rs, and Silvias. Would likely stay a dream though lol.

There's at least some used S14s available, but they're still quite rare, relatively speaking.

Doug just reviewed the new Mustang GT 500:

Clean Technica: Tesla Model 3 & Model S Outpace Ferrari F12 On The Track (Video)

The F12 got its ass kicked at the 200 meter, coming in 47 seconds behind the Tesla Model S P100D Gray and even getting beaten by a Model 3 Performance. It came in middle of the pack at the 400 meter, but even the Model S was outclassed by the Model 3 Performance.

For supercars, we are looking forward to a showdown soon between the Ferrari SF90 Stradale PHEV and the next-generation Tesla Roadster (Evannex blog from June). Even there, the Tesla looks to beat it hands-down with a 2.1 sec 1-100 km/h vs the Ferrari's 2.5 sec, never mind being a fifth the price.

Clean Technica: Automakers Show Us Their True Colors (Petition Inside)

Ignoring the petition for the time being, this article identifies the automakers who have taken sides in the fight over U.S. emissions standards. For those who missed it, Trump has relaxed auto emissions rules adopted by the Obama administration, but California has held out for stricter standards and due to the size of its market, most automakers have to comply with them regardless of national rules. (They also need to comply with EU standards to sell cars in that market.)

The Trump administration is suing California to force it to adopt the national rule (states' rights be damned) and the automakers who announced they would be using California's standards for anti-trust violations (so much for free enterprise), in a clear move to side with oil companies who want to sell as much of their product as they can. So here's where that stands:

• Honda, Ford, Volkswagen, and BMW sided with California, voluntarily adopting stricter standards. Honda has further declared itself not to be a party to the suit, saying it'll make cleaner cars regardless of legislation or regulations.
• On the other hand, "GM, Fiat Chrysler, Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, Kia, and Subaru filed a brief supporting the Trump administration’s efforts to prevent California from setting their own standards, taking sides with the polluters."

Meanwhile, of course, electric vehicles continue to grow in both demand and market share. I can't help but feel that the legacy automakers are writing their own tickets for obsolescence.

Doug just reviewed one of the coolest cars ever, the BAC Mono:

I will be entirely honest, I am not impressed by 200 metre sprints. Of course electric cars are going to perform better in that that short a distance. 400m is closer to a traditional quarter mile, but even that seems woefully inadequate as cars have kept getting faster and faster. Given that race circuits can have straights kilometres long...

"We beat a Ferrari model first released in 2012 in a test weighted to benefit our acceleration profile!" Is neat but...

First, how many times in their life will the average consumer get to test their vehicle's top-end speed? Second, race conditions aren't just about going in a straight line for a hundred miles. You need handling, braking, and acceleration, and an EV will beat an ICV on acceleration every time. Third, while improving the top-end is certainly a challenge for EVs, Tesla is working on that now with the 2020 Roadster. We have barely begun to see this technology mature.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 1st 2019 at 12:11:04 PM

But if you're comparing it with a supercar, then we DO want to know the top speed and how they accelerate over the length of a straight—and handling, braking, etc. as you noted.

Picking a favourable car over a short distance is a biased test to grab headlines but not the full range of statistics.

Though admittedly comparing with the F1 would be comparing with a hybrid IIRC the features.

Apples to apples. The Model S and Model 3 were being raced against a Ferrari F12. I don't know if the F12 is considered a "supercar", but the Model S is not. The Roadster is, however, and the promised specs on the next-gen Roadster are insane. Even there, you're talking a million dollar car against a 200K car.

Per my searches, the F12 runs at $300K and up. It was beat on a sprint by a $50,000 car.

Internal combustion is a dead technology. It's still kicking and running around, but it's as obsolete as the horse and buggy.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 1st 2019 at 12:39:53 PM

And what we're getting is an apples to oranges comparison. The acceleration characteristics of electrical and internal combustion cars are known to be different. Picking scenarios where the electrical car is directly advantaged is not an exciting comparison or really demonstrating a value proposition.

As for electrical cars as a technology, my concerns are mostly the additional load on the electrical grid once switching over happens in earnest (that is a lot more nighttime demand for one) and the issue of battery degradation. It's bad enough with phones and laptops, range loss on cars...

They've been semi mainstream enough it should be known. How do batteries perform over a car's lifetime?

Edit: My problem is... who is this comparison appealing to? From my perspective as someone who loves performance and engineering, the limited comparison over 200mor even a quarter-mile is neat but not all that fascinating or exciting. And when I look at it from a value perspective... why do I care about drag races? It's too limited to excite me or make interesting comparisons on the high end, and on the practical end it's totally irrelevant.

Edited by RainehDaze on Nov 1st 2019 at 5:43:30 PM

Other people might be interested in these things, though. I'm not posting here for your approval. Neither drag racing nor max speed are things that your typical consumer will ever need to worry about in everyday life, but they make for interesting conversation, and acceleration is actually very important in real-world driving.

Battery life is a concern, but Tesla in particular has a massive technological lead on that front, with Bloomberg recently performing a survey that showed less than 1% average degradation per 10,000 miles driven on Model 3 vehicles. If that linear relationship holds, you'll still have 90% of max range after 100K miles, which ought to be enough for anyone.

Edited to correct: 10K not 20K.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 5th 2019 at 3:37:46 PM

You might not be posting for my approval but I'm still going to complain about effectively meaningless data and how it's less outrageous than it seems. "Out-accelerates a Ferrari over the distance of a short foot race!" isn't as impressive or noteworthy as it seems.

I'd never assume a linear relationship off one data point and without knowing how the battery management system works. E.g. with the number of batteries if some portion is managed to avoid charge-discharge cycles, I might expect that as that reserve comparatively-untouched portion is used up there may be a sudden change in gradient.