Characters.Kingdom Hearts reorganization

A lot of the Kingdom Hearts character pages could use some cleaning up. Things such as outdated story segments, inconsistent capitalization ("Keyblade" and "Heartless" should be uppercase, basic terms such as "light" and "darkness" should be lowercase), and especially the Supporting Disney page, which lumps a ton of NPCs into a folder without much thought and even less categorization (for instance, the Grand Councilwoman from Lilo & Stitch appears in favor of more recurring characters like Chip and Dale). And while the non-full body images and red outlines for some of them might look alright, more consistency with the images would also be nice.

A few of these pages have sandboxes where I'm working on cleaning them up, especially with information such as voice actors split between languages, movie and game origins, and which games each appears in, preferably in chronological order. And for the sake of simplicity, any characters with darrin'd actors will have those actors listed by the year their games were released, rather than what game it was, so we won't have to trudge through text like "dubbed over lines for 358/2 Days in HD 1.5 ReMIX). So each and every folder will include the following tags, using Jiminy Cricket as an example:

Also, in regards to game appearances, if any remakes or remasters are involved, only the basic game will be included if they appear in all versions (e.g., just listing Chain of Memories will mean that Jiminy appears in the GBA and PS 2 versions of the game). If they only appear in a later version, a parenthetical note will be made next to that game.

I also have plans to dedicate the aforementioned "Supporting Disney" page to simply include characters whose roles and appearances go beyond their regular films, while those who stick to their movie worlds will be listed on a separate page called Disney Worlds, which will list every Disney character that doesn't fit under "Party Members" or "Villains".

That's pretty much the gist of what I plan to do so far. I've already made a separate Party Members and Summons page; check the existing sandbox tab to see how it will be reorganized.

edited 29th May '18 6:10:13 PM by immblueversion

Tagging ~unnoun since she brought up some issues with the Org character organization a while back.

This looks good, though I disagree with listing VA information by year because that's less obvious.

I can't remember because it's been, like. A week. Or two. Or more.

But I think my thing with the Org. pages was that there's two fucking Organizations now as of DDD.

And it was in the middle of a discussion about Kingdom Hearts III trailers and more specifically Marluxia and Vanitas, and how they're both in the True Organization XIII introduced in Dream Drop Distance.

Vanitas absolutely doesn't seem to be in the "Independent Villains" section anymore, and. It's not confirmed, I guess. KHIII isn't out yet, so making the switch now is premature, obviously. But I've been seeing hints Riku Replica might be back in the True Organization, and if true, I think we need to be prepared to cut that page entirely if the only ones in it are Sephiroth and that Experiment thingy.

And I don't have any specific answers or solutions on how exactly the overlapping characters between the original Organization XIII (which do make sense to be at least listed together because they were presented that way from Co M, II and Days until DDD) and the "True Organization XIII" in DDD and III should be categorized.

The True Organization XIII itself being a thing is kind of a spoiler for DDD, so that adds a level of complexity.

And given how the members of the True Organization XIII in DDD are said to be incarnations of Xehanort, that adds another level of whether we just need to rename or add a subcategory to the Xehanort page or not.

So an idea/suggestion I have is to have two layers to the page, with the "Main" Xehanorts (Ansem, Xemnas, Young Xehanort, Master Xehanort, Terranort,) and the True Organization members like Xigbar/Braig, Saix/Isa, Marluxia and Vanitas in the second section.

Presumably with just links to wherever their "main" page would be, but. They at least should be listed.

edited 1st Jun '18 5:34:04 PM by unnoun

I'm been thinking about this myself, and can't come up with any elegant solutions. This situation just doesn't gel with the way we do character pages.

The best we can do is just make a single Org page with both groups on it, spoilers be damned. Hopefully it doesn't hit the size limit and require a hard split.

The Xehanorts that are actually Xehanort (i.e. not Braig or Vanitas) would have their own page still. The Independent Villains would just consist of Hostile Program, The Experiment, and Phantom Aqua.

edited 2nd Jun '18 7:53:35 PM by Karxrida

After several days, I think I've got it: we follow the example of Star Wars – Planets and Races page and put a folder with a bullet list containing links to their respective pages. Just for an example:

Perhaps we could also redub Xehanort's page as "Xehanort's Incarnations and Associates", and put Vanitas and Braig there to preserve the spoiler. Also, I'd go against using Fan Nicknames like "True Organization XIII". That's an outdated translation people came up with before the official translation of "real Organization XIII", which isn't a proper noun.

I've also been thinking: maybe we should do away with the whole "Supporting" and "Villain" aspect for non-Disney characters, bringing together all other original characters and put Sephiroth on the Square Enix page.

God, this is complicated.

I'm good with the things you said, though I want to see a sandbox first.

edited 12th Jun '18 4:34:29 PM by Karxrida

Here's a basic layout: Kingdom Hearts: Organization XIII and Kingdom Hearts: Xehanort's Incarnations. I'm currently using the former to edit Axel's section on his individual page.

Let's just do a total Spoilers Off policy for these character pages, and edit the front notices accordingly.

Aren't character pages in general supposed to be Spoilers Off? The idea being something like "if you want to avoid spoilers then you shouldn't be on subpages in the first place".

Characters pages are, in a functional sense, a kind of hard split of the main page, organized for clarity. That means that the same spoiler rules generally apply. It's not like an Awesome subpage where we presume that someone reading it has seen the work.

The reason we take a harder line on excessive spoiler tagging on Characters subpages is that people often try to hide the fact of a character's existence, or their name, when this is antithetical to the purpose of the article. In these cases, we sometimes declare the whole thing "spoilers off", but that can also apply to heavily spoiler-tagged primary articles as well.

Cleanup appears to be finished so locking.