Hazbin Hotel pilot & Helluva Boss

Y'know, Hazbin Hotel helped me realize something: I don't like the musical numbers in Helluva Boss because most of the time they're just there in terms of plot. In Hazbin Hotel most of the songs either move the plot or explore a character. In Helluva Boss most of the time you could take them out and miss nothing. Chaz's song in Exes and Oohs is just him trying to seduce Moxxie and Millie, Striker's song in the Moon Festival is just a bragging song about how cool he is and how much Moxxie sucks. Striker's other song in Western Energy is just there to fill the montage of bringing Stolas to his lair.

I won't say all of the songs are like this. The most recent episodes do have songs that tie into the plot, but it feels like most of these songs don't serve the narrative. They're just there to make the episode longer.

Helluva Boss definitely experienced a lot of "musical creep", as it were. Vivienne Medrano has even said that it wasn't really intended to have songs like Hazbin, but she just likes musicals too much. "Mammon's Magnificent Midseason Musical" outright just has the structure of a Hazbin episode (with songs denoting the really important and significant parts of the story), and I think we can probably expect more of the same in that regard.

Also, I feel like Helluva Boss doesn't feel like it should be a musical. I can't explain it, but that's how I feel.

Like, the songs for the most part feel tacked on.

Edited by AFan on Feb 21st 2024 at 7:49:12 AM

Helluva Boss started out as basically The Office in Hell but morphed very quickly into a romantic melodrama that only recently started to explore Hell, so I dunno. I just hope Season 1 of Hazbin Hotel was the experience Vivzie needed to deliver on a more satisfying plot for this series.

We'll see what the coming seasons bring, but honestly, I kind of just want the whole Stolitz Will They or Won't They? back-and-forth melodrama to be over and done with.

Don't get me wrong, I like them both as characters and have no issues with them getting together (or not, should that be the case), and relationship dramas and their complications aren't inherently bad for a story. But my issue with it is that I just don't find it all that compelling or interesting considering the sheer amount of screen-time it's gotten and that it just drags on and on. We've seen this scenario in media since media even began to be a thing - This doesn't feel "different" enough for me to see more of it, so to speak.

There's also the fact that it feels like this is one of those cases where the problems would all be solved if people just sat down and fucking talked to each other. I mean, I know it won't happen any time soon because Blitzo is so damn allergic to his own emotions and vulnerabilities that I'm honestly surprised he doesn't break into hives every time he tells Loona he loves her. The self-loathing doesn't help, either. Like, people can see from a mile away how he's going to react to being given an Asmodean Crystal, so just give it to him so we can move on to other things already.

... Still, I can't help but wonder if we're meant to see a contrast between Blitzo and Stolas's relationship and Moxxie and Millie's relationship. Moxxie is a bundle of neuroses who also struggles with how to handle them (Understandably so, considering his past and his current Butt-Monkey status), and we've seen what happens when that gets the better of him, but his and Millie's marriage is still presented as a healthy and equal one where they trust each other and can actually be open and honest with each other; Hell, their fight in "Unhappy Campers" was solved by Moxxie taking full responsibility for the whole fiasco and just telling Millie "I fucked up bad, I'm sorry I didn't listen to you, hurt your feelings and made you feel unimportant, I shouldn't have gotten jealous of your success."

Just compare that to Blitzo and Stolas's clusterfuck of a relationship that is an unequal one that's basically built on a whole bunch of misunderstandings... Most of which would be solved if those knuckleheads could be like the M&Ms just once and just talk things out.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Feb 21st 2024 at 7:54:13 PM

"The Full Moon" will be a thirty-minute Bottle Episode of Blitzo and Stolas just talking in like a coffee shop somewhere. You watch.

What do you think would even be the subplot to Full Moon?

Even better question: What do you all think the main plot of Full Moon will be?

You joke, but I’d love that setup if it at least partially went the way of this fic I found on AO3.

Long story short: Blitzo and Stolas go out to brunch, with Blitzo forcing Moxxie to come along as ”a buffer” because it’s totally not a date, and then they just sit and passive-aggressively flirt with each other non-stop, and every time poor Mox tries to do what he’s asked, he’s told off, but Blitzo also keeps him from leaving because he’s supposed to be ”the buffer”. It’s fully intentional Cringe Comedy that will leave you wanting to dropkick the fucking idiots in the head by the end, much like I imagine Moxxie would.

But, you know, maybe actually showing Moxxie some mercy and letting him pull a Screw This, I'm Outta Here after a certain point.

OT: The Full Moon? I imagine that’ll involve Stolas giving Blitzo the Asmodean Crystal, which will totally not backfire at all.

Maybe the subplot will involve Stella and Octavia, where Stella will try to gaslight Octavia into hating Stolas like what was suggested a while ago.

Full Moon is the name of the next episode right?

Knowing nothing but that I expect and would be disappointed if it's not a Loona episode.

That might require Loona to actually have lines, which this show seems to have a deathly allergy to at the moment.

Loona will spend the next episode communicating in sign language

Better yet, the episode opens with her swallowing a dog whistle, rendering her dialogue too high-pitched to be heard by human ears.

Poor woman's going to be both mute AND deaf by the end of the episode.

Or by Semaphore, perhaps.

Looner now communicates through stock dog barks

Or maybe there's a serious reason as to why Loona isn't talking, probably something having to do with her dad ignoring her constantly in favor of Stolas.

No they just did it to save money since she wasn't important in (most) of the episodes that came out last year.

Also, has anyone else noticed that if it wasn't for Queen Bee coming out, Loona would have had literally 0 lines at all last year?

I know most of the above comments are jokes, but something about the whole "hurr hurr, Viv is too much of a coward to give Loona dialogue" rubs me the wrong way.

Viv said in a Twitter thread that she DID like Loona and greatly appreciated Erica's voice work. Assuming Loona DOES get a focus episode soon (which I really hope she does), I don't see any reason why Viv wouldn't want to give her proper dialogue. (The thing about saving money makes sense for episodes where Loona has a smaller role, but not for episodes where she has major focus.)

I was going to comment something similar.

There’s no need to act like the budgeting snafu in regards to Erica Lindbeck was something Viv did on purpose just to be an asshole, guys.

So does anyone find is just a tad contrived that Moxxie and Millie both dated Chaz? Like, all the demons in Hell they could have dated, and these two just so happened to have dated the same guy at one point in their lives before they met? Really pushing my suspension of disbelief.

Also, why didn't we get more of Millie's side of her time with Chaz? Apparently, there was supposed to be scenes of their time together but was cut due to pacing issues. So they thought the song of Chaz trying to seduce Moxxie (and briefly Millie) was fine to keep, even though it adds nothing to the story, but a flashback to Millie's past was the pace breaker?

I'd actually argue that Chaz's music number does have a purpose. Or, several as the case may be:

1. It's there to provide some levity. Remember that this comes right off the heels of a super-tense scene where Moxxie's Dark and Troubled Past was revealed, Crimson revealing his intentions for bringing I.M.P to him and threatening to kill both of the M&Ms if Moxxie ever disobeyed him again.

2. It further characterizes Chaz as a sleazy, selfish pervert who'll sleep with anybody he so much as makes eye contact with. He's trying to seduce Moxxie, no doubt in order to coax him into remembering how "great" they were together and that their marriage will be just as "great"; Surely, Moxxie should be thrilled to get to be with such a handsome, daring Sex God of a partner again, right? What Moxxie actually wants, he doesn't actually care about - After all, why would anybody object to being with him?

3. I'd argue that it also serves to highlight the contrast between Chaz and Millie as Moxxie's partners. Regardless of how genuine Chaz's feelings for Moxxie are or were, he ultimately only cares about himself; Millie, by contrast, is surprised that Moxxie would hide his past from her, but it's also made clear that she understands why he did once the cat comes out of the bag - She's not upset with him, she's worried for him because she actually cares about him. Getting this reminder that he's but a pawn in his father's game and almost getting forcefully pulled back in, away from the only person who has ever loved him unconditionally since his mother was murdered, must've been extremely painful for the poor dude - No wonder he breaks down after booting Chaz out of his room.

Of course, when the "sexy music number" doesn't work and he still feels the need to get his rocks off, Chaz tries to seduce Millie and Blitzo, which leads me into...

4. It does actually further advance the plot; Finding out that Chaz is a shitty lay is what spurs Blitzo into snooping around in his car because he's so firmly convinced that something is fishy with him. He's Right for the Wrong Reasons, mind you, but that's what leads to Chaz's deception being revealed.

(5. It gave us some fucking excellent facial expressions from Moxxie. Every single frame of him during the whole song number could be used as a reaction gif or image; I use the extreme discomfort/annoyance screencap as a reaction image way more often than I probably should.)

Now, how well this was pulled off is obviously in the eye of the beholder. And do I think Chaz being Millie's ex as well is a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character? Well... Yeah. The unfortunate thing about cutting Millie's flashback is that it means that her and Moxxie sharing an ex doesn't really mean anything for the plot; The YMMV page for the episode flat-out calls it (Or, used to, anyway, maybe it's been removed now) a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment, and it's kind of hard to disagree. In fact, the lines about her dating Chaz could be cut entirely and very little would change. And the line about her meeting a shitty ex could just as well be her being mad that a sleazy asshole shark tried to hit on her and refused to take "No" for an answer.

If I were to change this setup (Not that I'm a writer for a show or anything - Writing is hard, and even moreso for a show, probably), how I'd probably do it is that I'd have Millie be the one to decide that something is up and go to investigate Chaz's car after the flashback to her time with him. Maybe she'd convince Blitzo to sleep with Chaz to distract him while she sneaks away.

Edited by MagmaTeaMerry on Feb 26th 2024 at 6:20:55 PM

I have this horrible thought that as the writers are planning season three, they're looking at the reception of Unhappy Campers and concluding that "Well, they didn't like it because of what they did while trying to do their job, so no more episodes on Earth." I don't want it to be true, but it's something that I've been feeling.

We don't know how M&M got together. So then shagging the same guy could be the connection: they met due to relative proximity to Chaz and hit it off without finding out they both dated him.