General Crimes Thread

X-posting from Latin America thread:

Mexico’s CJNG: Local Consolidation, Military Expansion and Vigilante Rhetoric

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

I'm copying and pasting this from the Law Enforcement thread in case this thread is more appropriate - a research question and a "please tell me how this would work in real-life so I don't have to contact several different law professionals to get an answer" kind of thing brain teaser for those who know law.

I'm writing this story and I'm trying to figure out a breaking and entering scenario, and how the law would interpret it. I'll try to give as much detail as I can and then bullet out the main points later.

There's a little background to how this scenario starts, but you can skip to the next bold section: In this story, two people break into the home of a well-known defense attorney. Person A snuck in to steal something, while Person B snuck in to find out what they were up to, not aware of what they were doing, and not purely out of civic duty mind, but a personal obsession with Person A. Stalking, basically. When they find each other, Person B restrains Person A and demands an explanation, so Person A keeps them talking while discretely making a call to 9/11. Their cellphone is on low volume and is hidden behind them.

During this call Person A discretely refers to feeling threatened and being held against their will, so the operator sends the cops over on that basis. The conversation goes on for awhile and the police arrive. Person B gets caught while Person A, not wanting to get caught for breaking and entering in the first place, flees out the backdoor with the object they planned to steal.

Person B tries to take the rap for all of this and gives a weak defense for what transpired. This doesn't work and they're arrested.

Now the question I'm asking is how the law would initially interpret this scenario:

• A call was made from the home of a defense attorney
• The attorney and his family are not home/did not make the call
• The caller was noticeably under duress
• When the cops arrived the caller (Person A) was gone and Person B was the only person at the scene
• There are obvious signs of entry, but the only immediate evidence that Person A was there was the conversation heard over their phone

And what sentences would be given:

• Kidnapping? False imprisonment? Breaking and entering? Unlawful How many years? Would there be some psychiatric evaluation if Person B cracked and tried to claim they were following somebody else, but the police couldn't find anything?
  • What sentence would be given to a minor in this hypothetical scenario?

edited 14th Apr '18 8:49:46 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I see that there was a discussiong about DUI legislation on the previous page, so I figured I'd talk a bit about how it's done here in Finland as a point of comparison.

If a breathalyser test shows 0.5 per mille of blood alcohol content, Usually you'll get a fine and a mark on your record - if you do it again, or if the blood alcohol content is high enough for a harsher sentence (1.2 per mille), you'll probably lose your driver's licence and might get at least a suspended sentence of several months. (It might not even be suspended if it's bad enough.)

Note that in Finland, fines are calculated based on your earnings, so if you get 15 day-fines, it means the court will figure out how much you make in a month and take half of that as your fine. If you happen to be making a million a month, too bad; your fine is €500 000. There's a lower limit on how much a fine can be, but no upper limit.

If the police stop you for anything when you're driving, they'll probably have you do a breathalyser test by default - it's just part of the routine. They also set up checkpoints; everyone who drives past is subjected to a breathalyser test. I've been a passenger when my parents or other relatives or friends have been checked like this, and I've never heard any complaints about it, other than a mild expression of annoyance at the delay, followed by the sentiment that they hope the cops do catch someone at that checkpoint that day. The stop only takes about a minute at most, if the result is zero or close, so it's not as if it's a major inconvenience.

Sometimes the breathalyser test can give a false result - there was a case discussed in the papers a few years back where someone had used mouthwash just prior to driving, for instance. Fortunately, if you're caught by the breathalyser test, you can ask to have the result verified, which you'll be granted by default. That means they take you to the police station or a hospital (which ever is closer, presumably), to take a blood test that overrules the breathalyser test (but they do account for the alcohol your body might have burned on the way there - which is not much). If the blood test shows you were actually under the limit, there's no further consequence - one of the cops brobably drove your car to where the test was taken, so you get to be on your way immediately.

If there is a problem with this system, I'm too used to it to notice. Is this similar to how other countries do it?

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

They must stalk billionaires, hoping to give a ticket.

Sometimes there are high-publicity cases where someone does end up paying hundreds of thousands of Euros. I've sometimes wondered how the papers even get to know about those - either the fine got challenged in courts and a reported on that beat got wind of it, or the wealthy criminal somehow thought making their situation public would make people see them as the victim, somehow. (As if that would help, anyway.)

This system has backfired before, though. The wife of the Formula 1 driver Mika Häkkinen got caught for speeding once, and was given a large number of day fines. Turns out she had no income to her name at all - she hadn't even applied for any of the benefits that you can get if you're unemployed (maybe she just didn't feel like signing up as looking for work, which you have to do to get the benefit). She ended up paying the lowest possible fine, despite living in a mansion and driving a luxury car when she was caught. If her husband had been driving, the fine would've been extremely high. (Then again, I somehow get the feeling that Formula 1 drivers probably don't feel the need to speed when they're not racing.)

edited 14th Apr '18 1:20:00 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Twenty years ago, a couple from New York were sentenced for felony child abuse after beating their child so severely he would never walk or talk again. This week, they were arrested again for first degree murder - in his death. ^{Full article text} From text copy of NY Times, emphasis mine.

Now someone correct me here, but I thought that First Degree murder required there to be a premeditated intent to kill. Accidentally killing someone, such as by beating them to the point of permanent health issues, would be Second degree murder. Why would prosecutors bring up a case like this when the crime doesn't fit the criteria for the charges? This sounds like an attempt to railroad them into a plea bargain to score easy political points.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I guess the argument is that the beatings were a premeditated attempt to kill him. It just took about twenty years for the attempt to succeed.

edited 15th Apr '18 12:35:59 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

Suspect arrested in Golden State Killer case, subject of two books (one posthumously) by Michelle McNamara.

"The title of I’ll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman’s Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer originates from the Golden State Killer himself, a man responsible for an estimated 50 rapes and 12 murders between 1976 and 1986, who told one of his victims, “You’ll be silent forever, and I’ll be gone in the dark.” Yet the quote takes on a heart-wrenching subtext when applied to the book’s author, Michelle Mc Namara, who passed away in her sleep almost two years before its completion and release."

https://bookriot.com/2018/04/26/suspect-arrested-in-golden-state-killer-case/

So the Co-owners of Mugshot.com are either under arrest or have warrants for their arrest. The charges are extortion, money laundering, and even identity theft. Gee people who extort public exposure of even petty crimes or just booking information without charges to ruin others lives turning out to be shit bags? Who would have thought?

edited 18th May '18 4:20:22 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

Man 'High On Meth, Fights Off 15 Police Officers While Masturbating'.

Gotta respect a dude who can multitask.

What's precedent ever done for us?

Ha! Though that article/Chronicle of a Slaanesh Daemon Prince's apotheosis is from 2013.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.

https://ph.news.yahoo.com/times-tough-japan-poor-yakuza-063628577.html

Seems like even the yakuza are feeling the pinch.

In France, the Police Nationale are hunting for Redoine Faid, who broke out of prison by using a helicopter and his accomplices having done recon on the site using drones.

Drones have become a pain in the ass. A lot of prison smuggling is done by them these days, and there's not a lot of ways to deal with it at the moment.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

The leaders of the infamous Aum Shinrikyo cult responsible for a home brew Sarin chemical weapons attack in Japan, have been executed.

For those not familiar with the incident back in roughly the mid 80's a man named hoko Asahara formed a Japanese cult. The cult was a blend of elements from Indian Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism, Hinduism, taking Shiva as the main image of worship, millennialist ideas from the Christian Book of Revelation, Yoga, and the writings of Nostradamus. They gained a fairly good sized following and reach outside of Japan. The nature of cult generally classifies it as one of the varieties of Dooms Day cults with all the abuse and weirdness that usually implies with these groups.

However it didn't stop there. In 1995 they launched chemical weapon attack on the Tokyo Subway which killed 13 and inflicted at least a thousand general chemical weapon casualties. It turned out they were responsible for a number of smaller scale incidents prior to the attack and are long thought to be a lead up to the main attack.

Afterwards the cult was found to be responsible and their leadership arrested or sought for arrest. The leadership as originally sentenced to face the death penalty in 2012 but was put on hold as fugitive members of the cult were captured around the same time and awaited trial. A total of 13 members of the cult were sentenced with death.

While the leadership was imprisoned and now dead the cult continued as the organization known as Aleph. They have suffered internal division but remain active with the cult drawing the disaffected and disillusioned like such groups do. They remain largely unpopular with the populace are still treated with distrust and hostility. They have been expelled and banned from Russia for being a terrorist organization in 2016 and in 2017 had offices raided by the police for charging a woman for tens of thousands of yen, about several hundred dollars US, for study sessions.

Who watches the watchmen?

Would this thread be appropriate for a somewhat more high level discussion about criminal justice? Because there's a somewhat heated discussion in the women's issues thread pertaining to the ethics of various criminal justice approaches.

I would say no. The general point of the thread was to list generic crime news and events given big crimes and events tend to get their own unique threads.

If you give me a bit I can dig around and see if we have an old legal thread still around. If not it might be time to create one. Though I would be careful in the write up to define the scope of the discussion.

Edit: Well I couldn't find any old threads that would be suited to the discussion either. Maybe a thread titled "The Legal System, Laws, and the people." or something along those lines. Even throw in the stipulation that the thread is for discussing various legal systems, laws, and their various impacts on the people they govern. Encourage people to cite actual legal experts where possible and also note that it could be a place to share legal news.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Jul 31st 2018 at 12:23:14 PM

Who watches the watchmen?

West Sweden car burnings may have been coordinated on social media: police

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

Organized Retail Crime. Basically organized shoplifting complete with fencing and front stores and/or alternate retail. This is one of the reasons guards will always have a job.

Who watches the watchmen?

Hello here, there, everywhere. Was doing some law enforcement research, some criminal research and thought this would be the best place to ask.

Of course there would be web sites, known web sites even, that the police would have a problem with because...you pick it. Logic would dictate that site gets shut down.

For those in the know any case where the site was left up to catch anyone visiting?

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours

They have left up some of the black market internet drug rings to catch more offenders where the feds and police worked together to infiltrate and run it to catch dealers and suppliers specifically. I can't remember which of them they pulled that with. They reportedly got a good haul in not only perps but liquidatable assets like Electronically Minted Money.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Oct 16th 2018 at 3:16:47 AM

Who watches the watchmen?

Hmmm won't probe too hard of which sites, but it does happen. That's very helpful in plotting out details of this novel I must get back into.

Currently reading up My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours

No big deal to know it made the public news. I know the nailed Hansa and Alphabay. The Dutch took down Hansa and ran it clandestinely for about a month and scooped up a bunch of dealers. The Dutch also nailed Utopia Darknet Marketplace. They also have been using the techniques to hunt down child abuse and trafficking sites and rings.

A google search for dark web marketplace infiltrated should get you quite a few results with good info.

Who watches the watchmen?

(German only, sorry) Woman will go to jail for 18 years after brutal stabbing attack. Basically she had developed an intense jealousy and hatred for her father in law for apparently no reason that she could explain to the judge, to the point of:

1. She summoned her mentally retarded brother from Macedonia to assist her in killing or scaring her father in law, breaking into and awaiting him in his house.
2. When dad in law did not arrive, she instead broke into a neighbouring home and attacked a 14 year old boy she found there, stabbing him fifteen times and almost killing him. She didn't know the boy, who was apparently targeted solely for having been there.
3. After the deed, she tried to frame her father in law through anonymous letters to police and then her mentally retarded brother, whose role in the stabbing was apparently peripheral.

This is one of the most shocking crimes in recent Swiss history, seems like. The judge called her action "bordrline diabolical".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I'm going out on a limb, here... But, I suspect she's a little disordered. Somehow.