Teen Titans (2003)

Looking back on it, should Valyor have been a villain?

Possibly, he certainly has traits of one and I find it really strange how no one questioned whether or not that mechanical alien race that he wanted help in beating down was sentient or not.

I personally feel that making him a straight up villain would've been too easy. I liked that he was a more realistic portrayal of a racist. He's not a pure scumbag, he's very friendly and likeable to those who are outside of the group he's prejudiced against. But he's still a bigot, and I was happy that the episode ended with him refusing to learn a lesson.

I wanna see an All In The Family-style spinoff with him now.

They made him looked too much like the captain. All I see is the Captain whenever someone brings him up. XD

You mean the dude from Nextwave?

Captain Atom? I think that's who you're talking about.

1. Why would it be bad for a Season story arc to take place in space? What's wrong with that type of set-up?

2. For some reason, I never could get into the plot of "Betrothed", which is odd, because the idea of actually seeing Starfire's home and her actually getting a real one-on-one fight with Blackfire is really good.

3. Who else here thinks that Slade was portrayed excellently as a villain for this show?

Ron Perlman was amazing in the role, that much is certain.

Yes, this show's Slade was awesome. Not particularly deep, but he worked with what he had. I definitely consider him one of the most memorable villains in animation I have seen.

I remember a lot of people didn't like Slade in this show because of the molestery vibe he gave off, first with Robin, then Terra, and probably worst of all Raven. Personally, I thought it worked well.

edited 18th Aug '15 6:04:30 AM by LSBK

Well, I can understand it shocking fans, but frankly I felt like it helped making him creepier, which he was supposed to be. Personally, from my experience the only real flaw people seem to agree he has is that, just like XANA, one of his biggest strength is also his biggest weakness: his mystery. Since we know next to nothing about him (even the writers seemingly didn't know in detail), he can't get any real development or complex motivations: that would end up killing the mystery around him. By relying so much on Nothing Is Scarier to make his character intimidating, the writers limited themselves.

edited 18th Aug '15 7:18:42 AM by Theokal3

He used his real name all the time anyway, making the mystery silly.

I kid, of course. :P

Agreed. The one problem with Slade in the show is that his reason for villainy and fucking with the Titans is because just because. I think the show's nature in trying to keep it kiddy as possible is to blame for doing away his mercenary background which would of complement his background as a mysterious dangerous men out to destroy the group and make him less of a Generic Doomsday Villain. Honestly, with how the show turn out in the end, it was ridiculous that they went with Deathstroke being a random criminal mastermind wanting to conquer the city for some reason instead of a dedicated killer who is hired to get rid of the team because he was paid to do so.

. . . Then again, he oddly went the former route again with Arrow (then again, again, he actually have a purpose for doing so (same with his appearance in Beware the Batman)). Either way, it seems like his Young Justice appearance is the most accurate portrayal of him (minus the psycho side effects that always ties with him, but the show was cancelled too soon).

I know. One quick Google search of his name in Jump City and BAM! all military info on Slade "Deathstroke" Wilson thanks to the Titans Tower super computer Cyborg's dad install that can do such feet at gathering data on people and Robin's detective abilities that he learn from Batman. . . . Wow, applying knowledge of the comics to this show really destroy the mystery of Slade.

edited 18th Aug '15 7:42:46 AM by BigK1337

I don't care for Slade, personally. Ron Pearlman portrayed him well, no doubt. But character wise, I think Slade talks a big game, but tends to get his ass kicked whenever he fights more than one Titan, and if they don't fall for his speeches, he's got nothing. The pedo vibe made it harder for me to take him seriously, and his lack of facial expressions are probably another reason why he feels bland to me.

Here, here. So much better if they retain his hired gun personality since he is better as that instead of a major big bad.

See also- Son of Batman, where he was frankly pathetic.

Slade is actually not a particularly good villain. His plans are vague, repetitive and lead nowhere, and he has little weight on his own - mostly he just reacts to stuff, and there's not much to him. In the first couple seasons (especially the first) it's mostly just him going "muhahaha, you'll never catch me," posturing and taunting characters, vaguely plotting/planning/rinse/repeat, but not really going anywhere.

When I was younger he reminded me of Chase Young from Xiaolin Showdown (or I guess that should be the other way around, since Chase came later) - lots of looking evil and claiming to be more powerful than everyone around him, not a lot of actually doing things. The main impact he has in the show doesn't come from him, but from the other characters' reactions to him - particularly Robin's. On his own he's not that interesting, and because he's mostly reactionary he doesn't really work as a Big Bad, at least not in the way the show wanted him to be.

Part of the problem is that his introduction and a lot of his development came from Season 1, where the show was trying to find its footing, didn't really know how to develop the characters and largely resorted to character types for its villains - it's a similar reason as to why Blackfire didn't really work as a recurring villain. By the time they had really started to give their characters depth, they were stuck with Slade as they already made him - they could put him in plots that were more engaging, but the time for he himself to be fleshed out was past. That's why most of Slade's best moments are in stories that are actually about other characters - even his part in Terra's plot is like that to an extent.

I've always seen Brother Blood as an attempt to do Slade: Once More With Feeling. When you think about it, Blood's schtick, his plans and his archenemy bit with his hero (Cyborg instead of Robin in this case) are all essentially how Slade would have worked if he had gotten more development to him, so I've got he impression the writers realized this and decided to give the idea a second, better shot: Blood doesn't have as much gravitas or presence as Slade, but he's definitely a better villain.

Slade is, however, acted extremely well - Ron Perlman is what singlehandedly took the character from bland to awesome, to the point that his performance is practically definitive - while not to the extent of Mark Hamill, almost everyone who does Deathstroke has a little bit of a Perlman imitation going on. And his appearance is one of the best Deathstroke outfits ever.

edited 18th Aug '15 12:14:59 PM by KnownUnknown

Man, and I thought I was the only viewer who didn't particularly care for Slade. That's a relief.

I can't say much except about the part about Slade getting his ass-kicked whenever he fought more than one titan. That only happened once and it was supposed to be this big triumphant moment. Well, maybe twice, but the second time he wasn't actually there to fight.

I have nothing to say about any other complaints though.

I was also surprised to find that Robin was also really disliked. He wasn't my favorite or anything but it took me by surprise.

Robin is disliked? Really? I mean I guess I can see it when you look at the fandom for the other main Titans and Terra but the thought still feels weird to me.

I think you guys are being a bit too harsh. I mean, yeah, Slade isn't particularly developped as a character. But frankly, he didn't really need to be. He worked pretty well with what he had. And while it's true he tends to get defeated when facing more than one Titan, his plans as a whole tend to get him a Near-Villain Victory quite often. I'll admit he is not the most interesting villain, but he was still charismatic and threatening enough to make an impact in my opinion.

Thing is, a villain doesn't always need to be developped to work. It's definitely a plus, but not being so doesn't necessarly make him suck. Sometimes a villain can have no real developement but still be memorable enough to stand out.

edited 18th Aug '15 2:48:20 PM by Theokal3

Oddly enough most of the complaints about him seem very Teen Titans Go!ish to me. Not that he was that cartoonish about it but I have no problem believing that the writers made that Robin based on that perception of this series' Robin.

I disagree.

Probably because TTG!Robin has most of the traits that TT!Robin haters perceived him as having.