The General Russia Thread

Yeah, but that's not going to change. As such, one must work within this system (which I agree, is terrible) to find a solution everyone can live with.

Perfect should not become the enemy of the good.

Also, the "article" talks almost entirely about the US and not Russia, so it's off-topic.

edited 14th Apr '14 5:13:27 PM by Quag15

I'm sorry. If you want, delete all traces of it...

I just did that. This is a thread in ON-topic conversations. That means that you're expected to stay on topic or very close to it. That wasn't even in the same hemisphere.

Lots of protests are going on in Moscow, the agenda is to denounce Putin and state media for blatant censoring and for "lying" such as accusing the new Ukrainian government of being "fascist".

Got an article from AP

Protest marches in Russia are sadly ineffective and easily used for government propaganda. I'd change my strategy if I were the opposition.

Why the hell is Zhirinovsky in a colonel's uniform in a Duma session? Boggles the mind.

edited 15th Apr '14 12:30:46 AM by emuran

Apparently he is/was a colonel in the Russian Army.

Reading his wikipedia page, he's also batshit insane (he really does want Poland and Finland back under Russian rule, along with Alaska, which would be "a great place to put the Ukrainians"). He's probably doing what he always does: goofing off, ranting about Asians, Jews, and Blacks, and occasionally being used as Putin's mouthpiece to float radical ideas. Pay him no mind.

He's not seen as much batshit insane as much as a clown. He also tends to show signs of Obfuscating Stupidity.

edited 15th Apr '14 2:34:03 AM by emuran

Obfuscating Stupidity seems to be the whole point of his career: he floats crazy ideas in order to test the public reaction, which United Russia can then claim as their own if they turn out to be popular.

Obfuscating Stupidity and Refuge in Audacity. He has survived in the Russian political landscape for 25 years, after all.

I'm curious to know what strategy you would change to, were you in Moscow, Emuran. Seeing as you have some degree of experience, that is.

In regards to Putin's Russia, would it be Bread and Circuses in there?

Still, it's good to know that some people are being open about not accepting brainwashing from the Kremlin.

First things first. Open protests will never work in Moscow. Bolotnaya demonstrated that. It's not Kyiv - the mentality of Russians is different, the OMON is far more efficient and brutal, and there's practically no popular support from outside the middle intelligentsia class

When Navalny was a candidate in the mayor's elections, he launched a pretty interesting PR campaign. Simply put, it was the usage of social media to organize social activism in the various districts of Moscow - leaflets that could be printed out, posters, "mobile boxes" and so on. He also then partially used this scheme to acquaint people with government corruption schemes. Although it was an election campaign, I think the base concept is very sound. It's far tougher to, say, tear off a hundred thousand leaflets from the walls than to scatter a protest. Especially if more leaflets appear.

As a concept, a few things should be taken:

1. Make the organization as anonymous as possible. It's far tougher to organize this completely over the Internet, but it minimizes the damage done by moles. Responsibility should be spread as thinly as possible, so that when someone gets arrested, the organization itself doesn't stall. We've seen with Navalny that, when one person becomes the leader and takes on most of the responsibility, his removal is a deathblow.

2. Don't hit Putin. Hit his base - United Russia. Spread information about the politician the local district elected - the probability of people actually hearing you tellingly increases.

3. Remember that the Russian police can't see everything - if people are not stupid, the spreading of information will be very hard to catch.

In time, although it may be only be in 5 or even 10 years, if done efficiently enough, the power base of Putin will be undermined - when people are repetitively explained that the ruling party is corrupt, and if the explanation falls into the eyes more than the national TV does, they will believe it.

But that's all conceptual. There's one huge and pretty unsurmountable hitch - the lack of opposition. It can be divided into two problems:

1. The lack of a unified opposition, as the various fractions spend all their time squabbling between themselves and trying to decide who is going to be the leader. They have to put their differences behind them and operate on equal terms, or they will disappear into oblivion as their predecessors did very soon. Navalny could be a leader - he has the charisma, quick thinking and flair, but - a) he's too obvious (that's why Putin neutralized him as soon as possible) and b) IMHO, he lacks motivation/ambition. If he'd wanted, he could have achieved far more than he did. The fact that he didn't is a big minus on his resume, whatever his reasons are.

2. The lack of a coherent party program. Again, Navalny partially tried to solve it (through his campaign to introduce a visa regime with Central Asia to curb the number of illegal migrants and his anti-North Caucasus stance - to end the flow of a huge part of the budget into Chechnya), but taking up one issue is not enough. A clear statement of intent and a unified philosophy should be developed, and an opposition manifesto should be released detailing their ideas on how all the main issues plaguing Russia should be solved.

That's another big weakness in today's Russian opposition - they are concentrating too much on saying "Putin is bad, United Russia steals your money", but they are not putting out any alternative at all. When Navalny put out an actual manifesto detailing what he would do as Moscow's mayor, he was pretty successful in the elections.

Another weakness that should be remedied - Navalny and his team concentrate far too much on Moscow. There are no alternatives to Untied Russia in the provinces. Go out, goddammit! Campaign in Krasnoyarsk, Omsk, Abakan, Rostov, Arkhangelsk! It may not be successful at all at first, but nothing will change if you don't do that.

It's all very idealistic, obviously.

Brilliant. Like it. Are you an organizer?

Relevant, esp the appendix "The Methods of Nonviolent Action"). I'm sure you've seen this, Emuran, but the others reading this thread may not have.

If you ask me, there are three logical universal goals that should be common to all non-violent pro-democracy movements: 1) Anticorruption 2) Bridging Social Divides (while protecting the relatively powerless) 3) Opposing unregulated globalization.

I am somewhat familiar with Archangelsk, having been there four times. I took a little time to look into local politics, and it seemed to me that there were plenty of popular grievances that a reform movement could engage- housing, jobs, wealth disparity, public finances, lack of physical infrastructure, and more than anything else, the lack of a civil society. A lot could be addressed if there were competent local leaders with a say in how public money gets spent.

edited 15th Apr '14 9:58:47 AM by demarquis

Except that all the competent people are sitting in either in Moscow or Petersburg.

That's what training is for. An educated public leads to educated officials pretty quickly.

Edit- In a functioning democracy.

edited 15th Apr '14 10:22:00 AM by demarquis

And who does the training? The West? That's happened before, and they were chased out after the chaos of the 90s.

Revolution is the wrong strategy for Russia. Evolution is better, though slower.

If it happens, though. But yes - revolution in Russia is doomed to fail, whenever it happens, and no matter what the result is.

edited 15th Apr '14 10:26:13 AM by emuran

Point is not to force it.

I'd have to disagree - sometimes there's no other choice than to force evolution on people - otherwise they won't evolve. Well-Intentioned Extremist is not always a negative trope.

Plus Russia is now very successfully being evolved away from democracy. It's already not natural, so sitting back and hoping people will evolve naturally towards what's better is not going to work.

edited 15th Apr '14 10:29:35 AM by emuran

Until bigger problems in their economy arise. Then, clashes and forcing might ensue.