This thread is about Russia and any events, political or otherwise, that are or might be worth discussing.
Any news, links or posts pertaining to the situation involving Russia, Crimea and Ukraine must be put in the 'Crisis in Ukraine' thread.
Group of deputies wants Gorbachev investigated over Soviet break-up.
Above in the Guardian version.
Putin's war against Russia's last independent TV channel.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 27th 2022 at 11:26:10 AM
Also, the "article" talks almost entirely about the US and not Russia, so it's off-topic.
edited 14th Apr '14 5:13:27 PM by Quag15
I'm sorry. If you want, delete all traces of it...
I just did that. This is a thread in ON-topic conversations. That means that you're expected to stay on topic or very close to it. That wasn't even in the same hemisphere.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.Lots of protests are going on in Moscow, the agenda is to denounce Putin and state media for blatant censoring and for "lying" such as accusing the new Ukrainian government of being "fascist".
Got an article from AP
Anti-Kremlin protest draws thousands in Moscow
Associated Press – Mon, Apr 14, 2014
MOSCOW (AP) — More than 10,000 people turned out in Moscow on Sunday for an anti-Kremlin rally to denounce Russian state television's news coverage, particularly of the crisis in neighboring Ukraine.
In promoting the Kremlin line, state television has portrayed the new pro-Western government in Ukraine as a "fascist junta" under the control of the U.S. government and determined to oppress Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine. The broadcasts have taken on a harsh anti-American tone.
Some of those who took part in the demonstration, called a "March of Truth," carried blue and yellow Ukrainian flags. One woman, wearing a traditional Ukrainian wreath of flowers on her head, held up a sign with President Vladimir Putin's picture and the words: "Stop lying."
Among those who spoke to the crowd was Andrei Zubov, a history professor who was fired from one of Moscow's most prestigious universities last month after criticizing Russia's military intervention in Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. Zubov argued against the annexation of Crimea by comparing it with Nazi Germany's annexation of Austria on the eve of World War II.
Zubov told the crowd that by lying to the Russian people on television, the government was leading the country toward "an abyss."
The U.S. and Ukrainian governments have accused Russia of orchestrating the unrest in eastern Ukraine in an effort to split the country. Russia has denied any involvement.
Protest marches in Russia are sadly ineffective and easily used for government propaganda. I'd change my strategy if I were the opposition.
Why the hell is Zhirinovsky in a colonel's uniform in
a Duma session?
Boggles the mind.
edited 15th Apr '14 12:30:46 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Apparently he is/was a colonel in the Russian Army.
Reading his wikipedia page, he's also batshit insane (he really does want Poland and Finland back under Russian rule, along with Alaska, which would be "a great place to put the Ukrainians"). He's probably doing what he always does: goofing off, ranting about Asians, Jews, and Blacks, and occasionally being used as Putin's mouthpiece to float radical ideas. Pay him no mind.
Schild und Schwert der ParteiHe's not seen as much batshit insane as much as a clown. He also tends to show signs of Obfuscating Stupidity.
edited 15th Apr '14 2:34:03 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?
Obfuscating Stupidity seems to be the whole point of his career: he floats crazy ideas in order to test the public reaction, which United Russia can then claim as their own if they turn out to be popular.
Schild und Schwert der ParteiI'm curious to know what strategy you would change to, were you in Moscow, Emuran. Seeing as you have some degree of experience, that is.
In regards to Putin's Russia, would it be Bread and Circuses in there?
Still, it's good to know that some people are being open about not accepting brainwashing from the Kremlin.
First things first. Open protests will never work in Moscow. Bolotnaya demonstrated that. It's not Kyiv - the mentality of Russians is different, the OMON is far more efficient and brutal, and there's practically no popular support from outside the middle intelligentsia class
When Navalny was a candidate in the mayor's elections, he launched a pretty interesting PR campaign. Simply put, it was the usage of social media to organize social activism in the various districts of Moscow - leaflets that could be printed out, posters, "mobile boxes" and so on. He also then partially used this scheme to acquaint people with government corruption schemes. Although it was an election campaign, I think the base concept is very sound. It's far tougher to, say, tear off a hundred thousand leaflets from the walls than to scatter a protest. Especially if more leaflets appear.
As a concept, a few things should be taken:
1. Make the organization as anonymous as possible. It's far tougher to organize this completely over the Internet, but it minimizes the damage done by moles. Responsibility should be spread as thinly as possible, so that when someone gets arrested, the organization itself doesn't stall. We've seen with Navalny that, when one person becomes the leader and takes on most of the responsibility, his removal is a deathblow.
2. Don't hit Putin. Hit his base - United Russia. Spread information about the politician the local district elected - the probability of people actually hearing you tellingly increases.
3. Remember that the Russian police can't see everything - if people are not stupid, the spreading of information will be very hard to catch.
In time, although it may be only be in 5 or even 10 years, if done efficiently enough, the power base of Putin will be undermined - when people are repetitively explained that the ruling party is corrupt, and if the explanation falls into the eyes more than the national TV does, they will believe it.
But that's all conceptual. There's one huge and pretty unsurmountable hitch - the lack of opposition. It can be divided into two problems:
1. The lack of a unified opposition, as the various fractions spend all their time squabbling between themselves and trying to decide who is going to be the leader. They have to put their differences behind them and operate on equal terms, or they will disappear into oblivion as their predecessors did very soon. Navalny could be a leader - he has the charisma, quick thinking and flair, but - a) he's too obvious (that's why Putin neutralized him as soon as possible) and b) IMHO, he lacks motivation/ambition. If he'd wanted, he could have achieved far more than he did. The fact that he didn't is a big minus on his resume, whatever his reasons are.
2. The lack of a coherent party program. Again, Navalny partially tried to solve it (through his campaign to introduce a visa regime with Central Asia to curb the number of illegal migrants and his anti-North Caucasus stance - to end the flow of a huge part of the budget into Chechnya), but taking up one issue is not enough. A clear statement of intent and a unified philosophy should be developed, and an opposition manifesto should be released detailing their ideas on how all the main issues plaguing Russia should be solved.
That's another big weakness in today's Russian opposition - they are concentrating too much on saying "Putin is bad, United Russia steals your money", but they are not putting out any alternative at all. When Navalny put out an actual manifesto detailing what he would do as Moscow's mayor, he was pretty successful in the elections.
Another weakness that should be remedied - Navalny and his team concentrate far too much on Moscow. There are no alternatives to Untied Russia in the provinces. Go out, goddammit! Campaign in Krasnoyarsk, Omsk, Abakan, Rostov, Arkhangelsk! It may not be successful at all at first, but nothing will change if you don't do that.
It's all very idealistic, obviously.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?Brilliant. Like it. Are you an organizer?
Relevant, esp the appendix "The Methods of Nonviolent Action"). I'm sure you've seen this, Emuran, but the others reading this thread may not have.
If you ask me, there are three logical universal goals that should be common to all non-violent pro-democracy movements: 1) Anticorruption 2) Bridging Social Divides (while protecting the relatively powerless) 3) Opposing unregulated globalization.
I am somewhat familiar with Archangelsk, having been there four times. I took a little time to look into local politics, and it seemed to me that there were plenty of popular grievances that a reform movement could engage- housing, jobs, wealth disparity, public finances, lack of physical infrastructure, and more than anything else, the lack of a civil society. A lot could be addressed if there were competent local leaders with a say in how public money gets spent.
edited 15th Apr '14 9:58:47 AM by demarquis
Except that all the competent people are sitting in either in Moscow or Petersburg.
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?That's what training is for. An educated public leads to educated officials pretty quickly.
Edit- In a functioning democracy.
edited 15th Apr '14 10:22:00 AM by demarquis
And who does the training? The West? That's happened before, and they were chased out after the chaos of the 90s.
Revolution is the wrong strategy for Russia. Evolution is better, though slower.
If it happens, though. But yes - revolution in Russia is doomed to fail, whenever it happens, and no matter what the result is.
edited 15th Apr '14 10:26:13 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?Point is not to force it.
I'd have to disagree - sometimes there's no other choice than to force evolution on people - otherwise they won't evolve. Well-Intentioned Extremist is not always a negative trope.
Plus Russia is now very successfully being evolved away from democracy. It's already not natural, so sitting back and hoping people will evolve naturally towards what's better is not going to work.
edited 15th Apr '14 10:29:35 AM by emuran
Khto tse, mamo-mamo?Until bigger problems in their economy arise. Then, clashes and forcing might ensue.
Yeah, but that's not going to change. As such, one must work within this system (which I agree, is terrible) to find a solution everyone can live with.
Perfect should not become the enemy of the good.