Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
What does that imply?
That they are unlikely to pass.
and Still concerning that these bills are all an issue while Biden's attempting to stay as POTUS. You think Trump would change his mind on the Ukraine issue should HE become POTUS again?
Getting away from stuff that should be in the locked US Politics Thread (which I only brought up because it concerned aid to Ukraine), depending on how this war ends, should Ukraine just remain "Ukraine"? I noticed that since their independence in 1991, Ukraine was simply "Ukraine". I could imagine this was because Russia may have had a hand with it but after this war, should Ukraine remain as is or go by extended names like "Republic of Ukraine", "State of Ukraine", or "Ukrainian People's Republic"?
Edited by HallowHawk on Apr 16th 2024 at 12:03:35 PM
Oh, bother.
I don't think any of us are Ukrainians. So we don't get a say in what they want to call their country.
Disgusted, but not surprised
That's really only a formality. Even a more extended formal name is unlikely to change regular usage.
Barring stuff where there are countries sharing a name (the two Koreas, the two Chinas, the two Congos, historically the two Germanies, the two Irelands... but that's a bit of a special case), very few countries get their full name used on a regular basis.
When is the last time you heard Australia called The Commonwealth of Australia?
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 16, 2024
- New Ukrainian mobilisation law was signed.
- Ukraine destroyed a long range radar station in Bryansk.
- Russia considers banning Tik-Tok.
- Russia made gains.
- Tatarstan is planning to use child labour in defence industry.
Oh, bother.
So Russia wants to use children to make their drones for them.
I guess the next time Ukraine bombs a drone plant in Tatarstan the Russian authorities will then use that to accuse Ukrainians of being child killers.
Disgusted, but not surprised
In the name of being honest
Eurasianet has an article from last year on how Russia uses fraudulent work-study schemes to lure foreign nationals (mostly women, mostly from Central Asia and Africa) into building drones at the Alabuga plant under borderline slavery conditions. Tajik workers are especially valued for their ability to translate for the Iranian engineers supervising the production. Workers are kept from leaving with the threat of a hefty fine to "reimburse" their "study fees".
Oh, bother.
Fraud, slavery, and now child labor. The forces that fuel the mighty Russian war machine.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
Russia's recruting more foreigners to go to the Alabuga Special Economic Zone in Tatarstan. There's drone factories and Ukraine's been targeting those places.
Posting this in relation to the Eurasianet article.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
"child labor" and "student internship" can be sort of a "terrorist" and "freedom fighter" combo. It all depends who's talking, our people or the enemy. Already some of our learned colleagues have mentioned "work study" programs turned into exploitation, and I recall something about Chinese making good use of their youthful pre-citizens to build electronics, "as preparation for a career in the field," compensated with mere basic necessities, or not even that.
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://new.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1c6b07g/more_detailed_footage_of_the_turtle_tank/
Improvised tank with armor that based on metal roofing material, although the shape and structure is already breaking out Jagdpanzer 38 jokes.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 17, 2024
- Ukraine attacked an airfield in Crimea.
- GUR attack air force related targets in Russia.
- Russia made gains.
- Russian Orthodox clergy is preparing to go to combat zone to provide spiritual care to Russian soldiers.
Ha, have fun with thoughts and prayers Russian soldiers.
In the name of being honest
Reuters: Ukraine says Russia steps up illegal use of tear gas to clear trenches.
Russia mainly used K-51, VOH and RH-VO hand-grenades loaded with CS, CN and other gases, he told Reuters in an interview. Ukraine's military previously alleged that Russian forces also used chloropicrin, which was used as poison gas in World War I.
[...]
Five hundred Ukrainian troops have required medical help after exposure to toxic substances on the battlefield and at least one soldier died after suffocating on tear gas, Pakhomov said.
"In addition to demoralization, the person loses physical capabilities – he can't see, he can't breathe, everything is irritated," he said. "Yes, it is temporary, but it is the very moment the enemy can use to take over this position or another."
Edited by eagleoftheninth on Apr 18th 2024 at 9:53:08 AM
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
Professional Forum Ninja
The head of the US CIA warns lawmakers that Ukraine could fall this year if funding isn't sent.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
Hmm, in my experience, "if we don't send more aid our allies would fall in a year" also most likely means "if we send aid now our allies would fall anyway and we waste money just to prolong suffering on both sides."
Where there's life, there's hope.
Most of the stuff we send to Ukraine is stuff we've already purchased (most of it is reserve, to be specific).
In addition, the war itself is not even the start of suffering. When Russia wins, that's when the suffering starts. Especially since they're not gonna stop there.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Like reflections in the glass!
yeah I would not put it past Putin to have world domination as a goal. At the very least he will likely be eying the rest of the Ex USSR territories if not all of mainland Europe.
Deranged X-Mas Figure
That's it? Russia's gonna win?
We're all just accepting it?
Doctor Who — Long Way Around: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13536044/1/Doctor-Who-Long-Way-Around
To put it this way, when Russia conquered Ukraine in the early Soviet days, they reduced the life expectancy to five years old. And Putin openly admires the guy who did that. That's not a great sign.
If nothing else we'd expect a lot of purges especially targeting groups like LGBT people. We also see Himmler-esque programs stealing children from families in Ukraine, and they're almost definitely going to engage in a massive Russification program.
In addition, Putin seems to be bent on the recreation of a Soviet-scale empire with a neofascistic ideology. That is to say a full-blown, nuclear-powered Fourth Reich emerging as a major superpower.
I will also note that the CIA guy is probably exaggerating in the opposite direction, trying to make the situation look more bleak than it is in order to create a call to action.
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
This. Cannot. Continue.
I'm not, and I would hope the West isn't either. The message from Ukraine and analysts is that the country badly needs support, but there is (FINALLY) movement in that direction from the US House. And the war has had so many curveballs, i.e. rogue army units marching on Moscow, that I'm not ready to lose all hope yet.
It's like, we're all trying to play Global Climate Crisis with a side of Late-Stage Capitalism Malaise, and Putin's like "No, I wanna play Cold War!" And we're like no, Putin, we already did that, we're playing a different game now. And Putin's "I want to play that one, I was good at it!" And we're like, you lost. And Putin's all "Then we're playing it again until I win! Now this is my sphere of influence, and everything in it is aligned with me, and you've got your sphere of influence, and we're both superpowers vying for dominance!" And we're like no, Putin, that's not how it works now, you're not relevant anymore, 'superpower' is very generous, we have better things to do, come on man.
Lost in Space
Reminder: If this thread devolves into doomsaying, it will be locked and suspensions will potentially be issued.
For now, this is just a warning.
Edited by Fighteer on Apr 18th 2024 at 9:15:36 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I will say for anyone too worried, to check out Debunking Doomsday who has articles on why not to be too panicky at the moment.
@ eagleoftheninth
Three bills. One for Ukraine, one for Taiwan, one for Israel. Plus another vote on the border and other Republican bugbears.
And in the middle of an election year to boot.
Edited by HallowHawk on Apr 16th 2024 at 9:18:10 AM