Turkish Politics

I'm currently at the central Anatolian city of Kayseri. Being a largely conservative city and one of the bigger voter bases of ruling AKP, here the protests were less visible than other parts of the country. Still, the police intervening did cause some violence. Generally, the protests are peaceful unless the police provokes the crowds.

I've heard reports that police has taken more than 100 protestors into custody in my hometown Samsun.

Virtually all protestors want Erdoğan and his government to resign, but this seems like an unrealistic goal because of the public support he has. He's been deliberately polarizing the public since he's come to power and this literally divided the public into two. Half of the public worship him while the rest simply loathe him.

edited 4th Jun '13 10:04:55 AM by amateur55

Most dictators ARE elected.

The most edgy person on the Internet.

Hmm... I just saw a news link suggesting that Turkey's president Gul supported the right of protest, and I saw comments suggesting that both he and Erdogan are on rival factions within the AKP (or something along that). I'm curious to really know about the the intra-party situation here...

Well, given that the post of president is more of a symbolic role from what I recall, I'm not quite sure what weight this would bring.

edited 4th Jun '13 1:50:01 PM by EarlOfSandvich

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

Even if the President (or King or Emir or whatever happens to be the name of the position in a given country) has a mostly symbolic role, I don't think the actual rulers of the country (PM or similar) want their symbols undermining them.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

Be careful, amateur 55, and take care. Thanks for the info. Good luck!

edited 4th Jun '13 2:22:40 PM by Quag15

Although it is relatively short, this is the best analysis of the cause of the events I've come across in non-Turkish media.

edited 5th Jun '13 4:20:27 AM by amateur55

While the analogy isn't perfect I imagine it would be like Queen Elizabeth publicly disagreeing with Cameron or Biden breaking with Obama. Not much actual power but publicity-wise a kick to the groin.

Trump delenda est

Many people here believe that what they are doing is simply a "good cop, bad cop" play.

The meeting I mentioned hasn't started yet, but I had chance to show our Turkish guest where the meeting will be held. Incidentally, since I was busy with translating stuff for my employer while sitting on the university's bench. XD

My President is Funny Valentine.

@Amatuer: Thanks for the link. It was very interesting. Esp. the following:

"...So why now? What was the real trigger? Briefly, it is this: A large segment of the population is infuriated by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's attitude. To wit: The people who didn't vote for me don't matter – screw them. This is not new; he has always been this way. But the constraints upon his authoritarian impulses – the army, the independent judiciary, the opposition press – have systematically been eroded over time, leading to ever more authoritarian policies."

Of course, everyone always feels this way, to a certain extent. But taken to extremes I can imagine why this would drive people a little crazy. A little bit like if we had actually elected Mitt Romney.

As a Westerner, I also found this interesting:

"...There's a widespread perception among Turks that the government has cut a deal: in exchange for being a "Muslim role model" to vastly-more-screwed-up Muslim countries, it has been given a free pass by the West to do as it pleases at home. After all, Westerners who once fussed about Turkey's rights and liberties – and who did so constantly when Turkey was under military rule – are largely silent about what this government has been doing since it came to power. This perception is pushing ordinary Turks, who know full well the government's faults, toward a nasty anti-Western nationalism."

I wonder how widespread that perception is?

@Captain: Could you ask him, short of Erdogan resigning, what outcome might satisfy most of the protesters? Would he care to predict how this might affect the outcome of the next elections?

edited 5th Jun '13 9:28:58 AM by demarquis

What a pity you posted after the meeting is over.

I'll sum up what he told us about the riots.

He is ardent supporter of the demonstrations and he claims it is exciting to witness something that has never happened in Turkey before. The demonstrations have support not only of students, but part of more conservative demographics like the students' in question grandparents. The main motive is not to overthrow Erdogan, but because people are tired of his sheer arrogance and belief that he knows it better what his nation wants (he wants to impose his beliefs on the other half that did not vote on him). The Ph.D claims that truly islamist fundamentalists account for 3 % of the population and even supporters of Erdogan are starting to have doubts about him. He told us he only did one good thing from his POV because he jailed 1/3 of generals, army being disliked there because of brutal repression of youth movements in 60s and 70s.

As a sidenote, the rector of the Ph.D's university annoyed Erdogan because he postponed final exams for his students who all participate in demonstration. In response to Erdogan's plans to force all people to have at least 3 children, they made a banner that asks Erdogan whether he wants more children like them. The Ph.D promised to grade their papers generously after the demonstrations end.

My President is Funny Valentine.

Hmm. An arrogant leader, pursuing unpopular transformative policies, is facing an organized backlash led by the young but backed by the old...reminds me of someone.

Hopefully Turkey will have the same success we did.

edited 6th Jun '13 1:15:58 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

So... holding out for a Poll Tax moment?

Um... translation: a policy so bad, even your own side wants to lynch you for it.

edited 6th Jun '13 1:22:08 AM by Euodiachloris

As I understood it, the army was very much opposed towards Erdogan anyway and at least thought about shutting his government down, like they have done in the past. They have certainly too much power but you can't really call most of them conservative.

They're a different flavor of conservative. Nationalist secularist, to be precise. There's a better word for that, but I won't say it. Nope. Not going there.

The organisation you mean wasn't secular, but suffused with both neopagan and Catholic elements/rhetoric.

My President is Funny Valentine.

@Captain: Thanks for the summary!

Wait... force people to have three children? Really?

That's something I would expect Japan to say. Is Turkey in a birth crisis or is it just "family values" thing?

edited 6th Jun '13 8:51:28 AM by Exterminatus

For Glorious Sociopathy! Peace Through Firepower! My Halo/ Foz crossover fic http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7082058/1/Spartan_of_Zero

I've read both. He wants Turkey to be powerful and stuff, so he wants them to have more children, and thus, a larger population. *cough*Every Dictator Ever*cough*

The most edgy person on the Internet.

Population is not a really good indicator of military strength nor economic progress.

For Glorious Sociopathy! Peace Through Firepower! My Halo/ Foz crossover fic http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7082058/1/Spartan_of_Zero

I read article that in right circumstances population decline may be beneficial. Though I'm not sure if dropping UK's population to 30 million, proposed in the article, will be a huge benefit.

edited 6th Jun '13 9:52:48 AM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.

Never said it was a good idea :P

The most edgy person on the Internet.

It is if you aspire to a nation of minions...

More important than large pool of workers is technological sophistication.

Israel is small than its hostile neighbors, years has been kicking their asses since its formation. They can even afford nukes.

edited 6th Jun '13 9:55:03 AM by CaptainKatsura

My President is Funny Valentine.

Semi-Dictators and Dictators lose logical thinking as a part of the job. Everyone knows that.

... That's what makes them so deadly.

edited 6th Jun '13 9:56:36 AM by Ringsea

The most edgy person on the Internet.