Disney/Pixar In General

I don't think it would make Scar that sympathetic. He still turned out to be a crappy king when he took over the throne.

With all the memes about women choosing a bear over a man, Hollywood might wanna get on an 'East of the Sun and West of the Moon' adaptation

True that

"Hey, gimme a minute to get to know everyone, 'kay, Brainy?" "Of course, but please allow me to get a word in, too, bzz."

So obviously the live-action Disney films are still gonna fuck this up, that's a given... but I like to imagine, if you will, a possibility where this is handled competently. Where perhaps Scar being the rightful heir, doesn't mean being the RIGHT heir, eh?

Robin: Don't ever ask me to dock with you again. Serious...

I really want to believe this, but this is just "Oh its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO subversive that the obvious good guy was the better choice allllllllllll aloooooooooooooong!"

I dont even llke Mufasa better than Scar, I dont like anyone.

Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.

Kingdom Hearts 1 did this sort of plot better.

It's been 3000 years…

Disney always goes 'the rightful ruler is always good, guy wanting to depose them is evil'. Triton/Ursula, Sultan/Jafar, Queen/Ratigan, Zeus/Hades, Mufasa/Scar, Elsa/Hans, and so on.

It took until Zootopia to find a rightful ruler who actually did screw up and even then the actual villain was the conspirator in his office.

Edit: There is Kuzco, I suppose, and even then he was the lesser evil next to Yzma.

And Kuzco could and did improve.

The notion of someone who seized government fairly and still should probably be dethroned afterwards didn't seem to occur to them until Magnifico and even there the execution... it could have been better, suffice to say...

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on May 2nd 2024 at 7:31:05 AM

The funny thing is that in the animated Lion King, the pride does have a legit official channel for a challenger to take over the pride. Scar could have openly challenged Mufasa fair and square. Mufasa early on angrily confronts him, asking if Scar's insinuation that Mufasa shouldn't turn his back on Scar is a challenge.

Disgusted, but not surprised

I wonder what Ursula would've done with the trident/throne if she had kept it longer than she did... We know Hades would lounge around and imprison everyone else and we saw what Scar did to the kingdom during his reign.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

Given her opening act was to turn herself into a giant monster and make the seas violent, probably nothing good.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Gonna ask a quick question, what if Aladdin used the Genie to wish that Jafar wasn't evil? How effective would that be?

When would he have had the opportunity? He had three wishes. He already used the first one to make himself a prince. Then he had no choice but to use the second to save himself from drowning. And the third was of course to free Genie.

And no, don't say the second wish. He didn't actually know for certain Jafar was evil and his enemy before that.

Anyway, there does at least seem to be a limit to what genies can do with their power. They can't make people fall in love, remember? Perhaps genies in general can't actually change people's minds like that.

Edited by M84 on May 2nd 2024 at 10:53:38 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Maybe on the off chance that he had managed to grab the lamp right before Jafar saw him take it when he was kissing Jasmine, Aladdin would've used the Genie to stop Jafar, so he could've used Genie to wish Jafar wasn't evil.

My guess is all that evil would have to go somewhere and hopefully it wouldn't be Aladdin or Genie.

The Protomen enhanced my life.

But that would have meant not freeing Genie. I already pointed that out.

Like I said, probably not even possible to make a wish like that. It'd be easier for Genie to turn Jafar into a bug or something.

Edited by M84 on May 2nd 2024 at 11:03:19 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

Why does this idea sound like crypto-commentary on the current presidential situation in the US? >.>

Optimism is a duty.

I think the rule about not being able to make people fall in love is implicitly a rule about not being able to subvert free will. You can't wish for Jafar to be good for the same reason you can't wish for Jasmine to be in love with you: because it would violate their free will.

Optimism is a duty.

I can’t remember if Genie (or Eden, for as few times as she appeared) ever mind controlled anybody - even briefly as a gag - in the tv series. It definitely didn’t happen in any of the films.

It might just be something they cannot or are unwilling to do.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2024 at 4:39:43 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

The rule about resurrecting the dead definitely sounds like "I could, but I really don't want to, and neither should you".

The rule about no murder is interesting, since Jafar does seem to be bound by it, but then again has no difficulty putting people in very lethal situations. This sounds more like a genie not being able to just make you drop dead, but they can kill you if they really try.

Optimism is a duty.

Turning someone off from evil is not the same as turning them good. They might just default to 'mindless animalistic lash out' which is not evil but is still destructive.

Thinking more about it. On the other hand, Live Action Genie does indicate that he can make people forget things.

Also, just in general. animated Genie’s insistence at the end of the film that he can just make Aladdin a prince again even though everyone at the palace knows he isn’t and are all standing right there is weird, since as far as we’ve seen it work it’s all just flash and no substance anyway.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 3rd 2024 at 6:41:05 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

I assumed the genie meant in the rich and fashionable sense. Presumably he would still have been the prince of a non-existent country.

Optimism is a duty.

The Aladdin wiki has a list of the genie rules:

• Only three wishes per wisher with no extra wishes, though freebies are allowed if the wisher got tricked.
• No direct murder but torture, empowering the wisher with powers that can kill, and rapid-aging curses are loopholes.
• No dealings with love but the genie can summon people for "entertainment" and help with matchmaking as long as they don't manipulate the lover or enforce marriage.
• He can bring back the dead but he doesn't like doing it because they come back as monsters.
• Genies cannot serve animals. If an animal does free a genie, they are not obligated to do anything for it.

There are also rules for freed genies.

• They cannot make endless treasure or food but can give someone the power to make them.
• They cannot break a promise but can manipulate someone into giving it up.
• Genie magic and witch magic should not be used in tandem because it breaks reality.
• The Genie Union organization must never be questioned.

It's been 3000 years…

Which is why there's a fan theory that Genie unknowingly created Aladdin's past with his father, the King of Thieves.

Edited by Brandon on May 3rd 2024 at 7:05:12 AM

With all the memes about women choosing a bear over a man, Hollywood might wanna get on an 'East of the Sun and West of the Moon' adaptation

Raising the dead is basically a Pet Sematary situation. They don't come back the same.

Disgusted, but not surprised

Is that from the TV series?

With all the memes about women choosing a bear over a man, Hollywood might wanna get on an 'East of the Sun and West of the Moon' adaptation