Old WW2 bombs and other unexploded ordnance

The B-17's bomb bay was pretty short in relation to its length and size, mainly due to the ventral (ball) turret. The Lancaster had a much longer bomb bay, didn't have a ventral turret, and thus had a far greater uninterrupted length of a weapons delivery platform. Therefore it could carry up to near its maximum theoretical bombload without too many problems, unlike the B-17.

Speaking of problems, there was a freight variant of the B-24 Liberator, the C-87. It was generally known as a widowmaker, because of how many crashes and accidents they had with the thing. Turned out, they were loading cargo too far aft of the CG, because the B-24 was designed with very dense, heavy cargo in mind (bombs) that would take up relatively little volume, while planes built from the wheels up as transports tend to assume that the payload will be bulkier (trucks, etc.) So when they would load the plane up like you normally would a cargo plane, it threw the CG too far aft and caused stability problems.

Add that to the fact that the Liberator was never designed to be landed with a full cargo - more like the complete opposite - and this made it an absolute bugger at the end of a flight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_C-87_Liberator_Express for more details.

You aren't kidding about the widowmaker label either.

The first C-87 prototype was based on a damaged B-24D, serial 42-40355, that crashed at Tucson Municipal Airport.

Somehow building the first one from a damaged plane sounds like jinxing it from the beginning.

To put this back on topic.

Tam; Yeah that is it. The Wikipedia page even has a picture from the event.

Thought it may have been one of those, even without the wiki evidence. Looks like a 4000 pounder.

reading comprehension fail. It even says what size it was in the caption. Durr. Needs more coffee, me does.

edited 11th Dec '12 4:56:26 AM by TamH70

That must have been quite an unpleasant find.

Related Site shows where bombs hit London, England in WWII. Damn. That was a lot of ordianance.

Holy crap zoomed out 1 year of bombings.

edited 12th Dec '12 5:23:42 PM by TuefelHundenIV

^

No, that's just London alone. A lot of major towns were hit, too, some just as bad, if not worse than London. Accidentally, even Dublin was bombed.

edited 12th Dec '12 12:51:56 AM by Greenmantle

Heck... villages out in the sticks were not immune to the odd bomb.

Heck, even Dublin got bombed, and they're not even in the UK. (Germany was far from the only country to accidentally bomb a neutral country, though. The USAAF bombed railyards in Switzerland at least once due to navigational error)

Especially if it was a damaged aircraft or a tip-and-run raid: see Appuldurcombe House for an example.

edited 12th Dec '12 6:16:56 AM by Greenmantle

I kind of want this thread to be about left over/surviving ordinance in general. Would anyone opppose such a change?

I feel this is a discussion worth pursuing in general. We could even holler a mod to change to the title.

I would imagine someone still turns up some old bombs every now and then in the U.K.

I wonder if anyone has found any of those air dropped sea mines the Germans used as block busters?

I don't mind. It's been de facto about UXO since answer #2. :>

Go for it. Holler your first post and let the mod know you would like it to change and to what.

On topic two clever methods I have seen for dealing with mines.

A crossbow launched trip hook with a resilient cord.

The other is rather neat. It is a light weight device blown around by wind. It is made of bamboo and biodegradable plastics. It can pop about 3-4 mines before it is done. It is light, easily made locally, and dirt cheap to make as well.

The so called Mine Kafon.

edited 15th Dec '12 7:01:56 AM by TuefelHundenIV

My favorite system for mines are still mine flails. The "running over all the mines" principle to disarm them is somehow badass. :> Tank based mine flails like the "Keiler" based on the M48 Patton apparently don't even have trouble with anti-tank mines.

I like that too.

Also great for shredding infantry and buildings. Or thats what Company of Heroes taught me anyway.

edited 17th Dec '12 1:19:30 PM by Joesolo

Bad for the flails, though...

*

First flail tank was one of General Hobart's funnies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobart's_Funnies

The use of most types of which the Americans, under the operational command of Omar Bradley, turned down at Omaha Beach. They did use the Duplex Drive Shermans - amphibious tanks fitted with flotation screens - but most of those were released from their motherships far more out to sea than was safe and most of them sank.

^

Wasn't the mine flail first used in combat at Alamein?

Now that is rather embarrassing. You are right.

<shivers> Those DD Shermans were absolute death-traps. I think I'd rather swim towards a German machine-gun nest than be one of the poor bastards aboard a sinking tank.

They were death traps mainly if the commanders of the ships that were their delivery systems were such a bunch of cowards that day that they sent the tanks off far far far too early.

Wikipedia is uncharacteristically coy on this issue, as seen here in the extract from the page on the Duplex Drive tanks -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_tank

"Others believe that the error was due to the commanders aboard the ships from which the tanks were launched.[who?] They simply gave the order to launch too early, possibly to avoid getting too close to the battle themselves.[citation needed] The possibility of disembarking the tanks directly onto the beach if the sea was too rough had been discussed and agreed upon by Colonel Skaggs and Colonel Upham, (commanding officers of the 741st and 743rd battalions), before the tanks left Portland, England."

Most other printed sources are far more scathing on the whole bloody mess around the use of the tanks on the Omaha Beach landings.

That day, that one day in history, the survival of the naval vessels did not matter. Their one job was getting the men of the invasion force ashore safely, regardless of the cost.

edited 19th Dec '12 6:10:42 PM by TamH70

Thread title updated upon request.

If you disagree with it (or there's a typo or something) PM me about it.

Speaking of mine clearing Thermobaric bombs have been used to cause mines to go off.

But more interesting the Mine clearing vehicle based on the Abrams.

I wonder if we could possibly find some more expeditious way to clear out mined civilian areas?