The Sandman

Cross-posting from the DC Comics General thread:

We don't seem to have a thread for Audible audiobooks, so I'm gonna drop this here:

Neil Gaiman's The Sandman is getting an audiobook adaptation via Audible on July 15, 2020!

Cast:

• James McAvoy as Morpheus
• Kat Dennings as Death(!!!!)
• Riz Ahmed as The Corinthian
• Taron Egerton as John Constantine
• Samantha Morton as Urania Blackwell
• Bebe Neuwirth as The Siamese Cat
• Andy Serkis as Matthew the Raven
• Michael Sheen as Lucifer

And Neil Gaiman himself will be narrating.

Quite the All-Star Cast there.

Who would you cast in a live-action Sandman? I could definitely see Evan Rachel Wood as Desire; "androgynous sexiness" is kind of a thing she does◊. Is Ron Perlman too old by now for Destruction?

Interesting choice...I'd be down for that, but I'd also say that Desire should be played by several other actors, both male and female, if they ever interact with humans, as IIRC humans see them as as the type of person they find most, well, desirable. Give the actors the golden yellow eyes and you're set.

I think Ron Perlman would be a little too old for Destruction...I'd go with Ewan McGregor.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see who gets cast for the upcoming show, then.

Though I wouldn't put any money on Mc Gregor, since he's likely to be tied up with the Obi-Wan show.

Is there a forum for the show?

Right over here. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15619350300A13678700&page=1

Yeah I was able to find it a little after that! Thanks anyway though

Saw the quote "It always rains on the unloved" attributed to Neil Gaiman today (it was part of the title of the second installment of "Brief Lives"). Amusingly, the phrase was actually originated by Charles Schulz in the Peanuts comic strip.

How are people reacting to John Constantine Hellblazer Dead In America?

I hear it is making retcons to Sandman lore and wanna know if it's going to stay that way

What kind of retcons? [is curious]

Morpheus is notably a "bet character" sort of like Jim Butcher's Codex alera series.

Basically, Neil Gaiman wrote Morpheus because he was sick of readers telling writers that some characters are just too powerful to write stories for. So, essentially, Sandman is writing stories about a nigh-omnipotent being.

Though Morpheus' first story begins with him being trapped and nearly powerless and having to reclaim his power. He doesn't become nigh omnipotent again until John Dee shatters the Ruby.

And while Morpheus is one of the most powerful beings in the cosmos, he's not the biggest fish. Even he can't stop the Furies once they are unleashed upon him. Granted, that only happened as a result of an incredibly complicated scheme on Morpheus' part to be killed so a new Dream could replace him.

It's interesting reading The Sandman a second time with the knowledge that Morpheus has been planning his own death throughout the whole series.

Edited by M84 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 10:00:23 PM

And all to atone for what he did to Orpheus. :<

While Death can do just about anything and seems to be the general Top God of the universe to the point the Furies dread her, Lucifer and the Presence seem to be above her power.

That and because he found himself unable to change. Morpheus had to choose between changing who he was or dying as he was. He chose the latter.

As for Death, she's clearly on a different level even from the other Endless. Note how the Endless are introduced. Most of the Endless get flowery descriptions of their role that take a paragraph or two. But Death gets one line:

"And then there is Death."

Because that's all you need to describe Death.

The Furies are inferior to Morpheus when he's in his own realm, hence why his initial strategy for dealing with them was "Eh, let them kill everybody else until they get bored, I'll just fix everyone later," which resulted in even Lucien giving him a "Reason You Suck" Speech.

Lucifer, by contrast, is so powerful that Morpheus says that, even if he was in his own realm, he'd still lose if he went up against Lucifer. In Lucifer's own series (which is my literal favorite Western comic, incidentally), he is seriously injured all of once, and even that was the result of a complicated ritual requiring months of prep time that turned his own power against him.

Other characters possibly higher than the Endless from the "Gaiman-verse" are Gyges and Garamas during the period they hijacked the Presence's power, and Fenris the Wolf.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Feb 22nd 2024 at 8:14:11 AM

Though even Morpheus in his own realm can't actually drive the Furies out.

Death is able to cow them into submission, though it helps that she is going to do their job for them. It's Death who kills Morpheus in the end.

Edited by M84 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 10:21:22 PM

It was sort of a stalemate. They couldn't beat him there, but he also couldn't evict them by force, hence his, uhh, "strategy" there...

And then Nuala had to call for him, invoking a favor he granted her.

The funny thing is that this was indirectly Lucifer's fault. Remember that the only reason Nuala ended up in Dream was because of the whole Key to Hell nonsense. Lucifer in a way fulfilled his promise way back in the first volume to destroy Morpheus.

It's even funnier when you remember that even this might have been part of Morpheus' plan.

Edited by M84 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 10:24:27 PM

Yes, Morpheus remakes himself as a way to atone for his problems.

Hence why there's a new Morpheus/Dream with fresh eyes for the universe.

He's explicitly not Morpheus at all. Daniel!Dream simply goes by "Dream of the Endless". Morpheus' power and role as Dream endure, but Morpheus himself is truly dead. As Abel put it, what died was "a point of view".

The new Dream deep down still has some connection to his identity as Daniel Hall despite his mortality being burned away. It's why he forgives his mother Lyta and eventually invites both her and his father Hector Hall's spirits into the Dreaming after their deaths.

Edited by M84 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 11:41:15 PM

I don't see why destruction would be inferior to death, but I also don't really care that much. What really matters is that the "Lyta" of Sandman be established as a separate, unrelated existence to the daughter of Diana and Steve. Gaiman can have the rest of his Sandman stuff untouched forevermore, but the real Fury, from before Crisis, she needs Character Development, and doesn't need to be replaced by Trinity. Revisit her life via a Watcher with a hyper time telescope, a Thunderbolt listening to a foreign multiverse's radio broadcasts. Maybe just drop all pretenses and just tell a throw back story. Don't give it any sort of Earth # or other variety of official designation. Just The Adventures Of Lyta Trevor, Fury, A Story That Has Nothing To Do With Sandman..

Lyta's story did end happily; after the main Sandman series concluded she had an adventure with Hermes and Daniel-Dream where she stopped Kronos from taking the Furies' power. After that she reappeared in the JSA comics and reunited with Hector after Mordru imprisoned her in Dr. Fate's amulet, and when he was dying and taken to the Dreaming, she chose to go with him and reunited with her son too.

I think the original Earth-2 Fury might still be around too, since the multiverse was restored and all.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 22nd 2024 at 12:47:08 PM

@ laliel: Well the Presence is meant to be all-powerful, at least within His creation (which the Endless are a part of). And Lucifer says to Death that he doesn't belong to her, so I'm guessing the only way he could die is if his Dad says so

@ indirect: It's weird that Death and Destruction are distinct enough concepts to be different Endless. Death always felt like a type of destruction, just one that wasn't necessarily flashy.

Yeah, Destruction feels like heat and the forge and explosions (and avalanches) while Death can be anything, anywhere, at any time.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Feb 23rd 2024 at 2:42:43 PM