Marvel Cinematic Universe

Abrams, in particular, is much better when he’s making stories that he himself conceived - because he is able to actually build those universes and stories from the ground up to accommodate the mystery box format.

The reason that Abrams’ mystery box has had such colossal problems in the last decade is because for whatever reason people keep hiring him to make films in established franchises with established stories that weren’t like that before, resulting in those franchise’s fans expecting more to those stories only to get something less coherent.

So, like, theoretically Marvel mystery boxing wouldn’t necessarily be a problem as long as they build the story around it. In fact, the first two phases mystery boxed quite a bit.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Which examples in regards to JJ Abrams having his own universes working in long term storytelling and how was there a mystery overlooking Phrase 1 and 2?

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Also, like, the Infinity Saga at it's core is ultra simple?

You just had to introduce a bunch of heroes, and each of them felt special because the world hadn't been established and crammed full of stuff yet.

You had 6 infinity gems, which are just mcguffins with easily defined powers. And a lot of them started as standalone mcguffins in their respective movies before being revealed as Infinity Gems.

Then you had a single big bad guy who wanted them for reasons. So the heroes had to stop him. Jackie Chan Adventures had a similar plot structure for 5 seasons and it was awesome.

Then stupid time bullshit happens but that's just at the very end.

Edited by GNinja on May 10th 2024 at 5:24:52 PM

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I mean, we already kinda had an answer to the objects being the Infinity stones if thats what youre talking… But why focusing on Phase 1 and 2 as a big mystery box payoff? And its a weird mystery to focus on since we already have the stories telling us what Infinity Stones do and even in isolation “these objects are powerful rocks” doesnt suddenly revolutionize the narrative by Age of Ultron since what they can do together wasnt relevant yet

Edited by M1gamiTensei on May 10th 2024 at 10:34:51 AM

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Oh I wasn't talking about the mystery box thing. I was just speaking about the Infinity Saga being simple in general, since people on the previous page were wondering why it worked.

Kaze ni Nare!

I've seen plenty of people worry that they'll just use the multiverse as a cheap way to bring back dead characters and stuff like that, and like... that's not how comics use the multiverse? At all? Sure, Death Is Cheap in comics, but usually when a character is brought back to life, it's actually them being brought back, not some multiversal variant that's treated like the same person. And the few times that has happened, it's rightfully called out as lazy writing. In fact, the MCU so far has made an explicit point of NOT doing that with Loki and Gamora, whose respective outings make it a clear plot point that they are not the same people and the people around them having to accept that. Most complaints I see about the MCU using the multiverse seem to be stuff people who don't read comics just made up in their heads with no real basis. And of course the people that think it's just a recent fad rather than a longstanding cornerstone of the genre that the adaptations have just now caught up with. I saw people thinking that Invincible was just hopping on the bandwagon in its most recent season as opposed to the show simply reaching the point in the original story where it became relevant. Which was written over a decade ago.

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I mean, we just got off the heels of Kamala fakeout death in the Spiderman comics. The Ultimate comics initially tried not to do so this but old habits die hard… as well as the Ultimate line itself but thats a different story

I wouldnt mind seeing alternate versions of characters played again, but it will be problematic when its clear theyre replacing the dead versions

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Mine's always been simple.

I'm not interested in seeing alternate universe versions of characters. And I'm not interested in every adaptation of a piece of fiction being canon.

It's part of why I don't like the idea of every incarnation of Mr Mxyzptlk being the same guy, because it means that every adaptation of the DCU that includes him exists in the same reality as all others, which is a concept that makes a lot of fans excited and I don't get it.

Kaze ni Nare!

With Gamora you’re correct but Loki is mostly the same guy. The first episode of the show even had the TVA show him some home movies of the MCU so he could get up to speed with his variant’s character development and continue from there.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on May 10th 2024 at 1:04:43 PM

Variant Loki is basically MCU Loki if he didn't become an incompetent moron in Ragnarok.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Loki's Loki never interacts with anyone from the sacred timeline so it's rather a moot point.

On the note of different versions of familiar characters, when the heck is Marvel going to bring back White Vision?

Uh I have no clue. After the last time they tried bringing mcu Disney characters into the films didn't work. I kinda expect maybe another show or avengers film

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

This is why cutting down on the series sucks. Just intensifying the lack of follow ups.

They couldn't even set up a satisfactory arc with the movies they've released, so more movies in less a time would make things harder to set up with how much the MCU is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Less material in more time will definitely makes it harder to tell stories and do arcs because you have less time on screen to do it in.

And I was specifically talking about Series not films. Two series a year means, probably no second seasons even for the good ones. No more Ms Marvel, She Hulk or Moon Knight and constant one season origin stories.

For both Films and series though it exacerbates the problem of not getting round to each solo hero quickly ala the Doctor Strange sequel.

Even though the cutback says theyll 2-3 films and 1-2 series, I do feel thats still too much. Its how it originally, I know, but making the MCU a rarer occasion to combat when people got desensitized to an overexcess of Marvel.

1-2 movies a year and 1 series a year is my ideal release idea

Edited by M1gamiTensei on May 10th 2024 at 11:31:35 AM

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True, but a big part of the show is how everyone but Mobius treats him like just another Loki who will selfishly turn on his allies the next chance he gets, as opposed to somebody with the full potential to be a better person, that's what I was referring to by that.

Edited by lbssb on May 10th 2024 at 2:33:06 PM

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In the case of Loki and Gamora, they are the same people, just from earlier points in time.

The Loki from the TV show is the same Loki who appeared in Thor and The Avengers - the timeline didn't split until after that point. And the Gamora now may not be the same Gamora that Quill and Rocket and Drax knew, but they are the same Gamora who was raised by Thanos and grew up with Nebula - all that backstory is still intact, as it happened before 2014.

This is different from going to a pre-existing universe and grabbing someone who physically resembles a person from your universe, but has none (or virtually none) of the same history. Gamora and Loki are different people only in the sense that you're not the same person now as you were four or six years ago.

That schedule would hirt future projecta we will not get another Avengers film until perhaps 2030.

Edited by Mizerous on May 10th 2024 at 2:48:58 PM

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I've seen people poise that Black Panther might return whether permanently or temporarily through a variant of himself.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I think 2 a year is best. And maybe a show. We would also have the quality increase if we weren't seeing everything thrown at the wall.

Of course I also think they really should scale back on stuff. Like why is avengers 5 so far in the future. And why so many projects.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Regarding series, even with the scaling back, it's not necessarily true that we'll get no follow-ups and nothing but origin stories.

In particular, I could see them doing more team-up series, with brief re-introductions for newcomers as was done in The Marvels.

So, let's say that they don't bring Kamala and Kate into the movies. (Although I do still want them to do that.) They could still follow up on them in a team-up series.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 10th 2024 at 9:18:35 PM

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Anything's possible but the fewer series there are the less likely X project will be made. (X the varible not x-men related :) ) Someone will inevitably be missing out.

It would be nice to know what the actual schedule of shows and films looks like atm. I've lost all track of what shows are even in the works anymore. Other than Born Again and What if...? S3.

Edited by dcutter2 on May 10th 2024 at 8:40:15 PM

There's a large amount of people who seem to believe that the multiverse was this super obscure concept that only hardcore comic nerds had heard of until Into the Spider-Verse singlehandedly made it mainstream and anything else that uses it is just attempting to copy it. Even though ITSV isn't the first superhero adaptation or even the first Spider-Man adaptation to use the multiverse.

Supposedly there's an upcoming series called Vision Quest that it's meant to follow up on what White Vision is up to. I hope it actually happens.