Red Vs Blue General Discussion

Wyoming was always a nice guy.

"Well, looks like today's your lucky day, mate! I don't have time to torture you, so I'm just going to have to kill you."

I miss old-school RVB. I don't care about the Freelancers, I just want the Blood Gulch crew back and their shenanigans, with Washington's Only Sane Man status slowly degrading.

edited 5th Aug '11 8:23:08 PM by Medicus

Yeah, I want to know what's happening to Griff, Sarge, Lopez, Donut, Simmons, Caboose and now Wash! I honestly do not care for seeing the first series again, even if it is altered. I don't care enough about the Freelancers to want more on them either. I preferred not knowing the full picture, since it placed us on level with the Reds and Blues.

edited 6th Aug '11 3:23:09 AM by Legionnaire

Isn't Donut dead?

Nope. If this wiki is to be believed, his consciousness was transferred to a memory buffer in his suit and his suit armour locked, or something. I read it somewhere on this wiki, I just can't be assed looking for it again.

He is revived in a Sponsor episode.

Maybe at the end of the season Epsilon's memories will adjust themselves properly and get caught up to the point where Wash is a Blood Gulch soldier? IDK, probably wishful thinking. Still technically possible, though.

Maybe Rooster Teeth is taking inspiration from Assassin's Creed, and Epsilon Church needs to synchronise with Alpha Church's memories to escape the Containment Unit.

I'm not gonna lie, Rooster Teeth just doesn't have the VA chops to sell the Freelancer scenes. Its not even narmy, its just... dull.

One of the most Awesome proposals ever

D'awwwwww.

Episode 8 is up.

Shouldn't Church have figured the unit would have been moved by now? If the authorities hadn't taken it, I'm sure his friends wouldn't have just left it there.

EDIT: Am I the only one who needed it explained to them that "alpha" Church and Tex are both actually dead?

edited 8th Aug '11 8:47:37 PM by thatother1dude

Wild Mass Guessing aside, that was, like, the end of Reconstruction.

Church might go into a memory unit inside a memory unit? I really hope we're not building up to something where the entire series turns out not to have actually happened.

Also, while I don't mind the Freelancers themselves, I do sort of agree that the whole extra plot feels like a misstep. Apart from what has already been said of the most recent scene, I'm starting to see some serious issues coming up with pacing. We're basically dropped from some other plot that hasn't been explained with entirely different Freelancers to a sort of vague origin of a couple different Freelancers complaining about stuff we haven't really had time to witness.

Beyond that, there were, what, nine Freelancers who have appeared or been explicitly referenced throughout who have backstories to be told here, not getting into the upper brass, AI fragments, other Freelancers, and possibly some of the original Blood Gulch characters. Even if the writing and acting were up to snuff, which I'm not sure they are, we really need something more focused than "Project Freelancer's history" to fit a coherent narrative into what I'll estimate to be about fifty minutes. Eight episodes in, I'm not sure I'm seeing that.

My point was that I didn't fully understand that the "current" (Epsilon) Church is, strictly speaking, not "really" him. Plus, as a troper, did you really expect him to have actually died?

Why? Most seasons are more in the area of two hours.

Really, it's not as if even pacing has been a big feature of the series; re-watching it, like 70% of the plot of the Season 5 happened in like the last three episodes.

edited 8th Aug '11 9:49:03 PM by thatother1dude

Fair enough about Church's apparent death in Reconstruction. Still, the fact that the new Church is distinct wasn't hidden. Did you actually determine that as a result of something this season, or were you just mentioning it because you happened to have it explained recently.

Fifty minutes because only half the season is focusing on the Freelancer backstory. The two plots so far seem to be essentially nonintersecting, unless the memories start to merge or something.

Pacing has not been a big feature of the series. Neither has a serious plot involving a large number of active, non-comedic characters, many of whom need time to develop either because they're new (Carolina, North) or have been set up for a definite character arc (Wash, Maine, CT). Hence, I'm getting concerned about RT's ability to pull this kind of story off.

I'm rambling, though, so I think I'll let my part of this discussion drop. It's not like I don't want to be wrong, and I really shouldn't be spending this kind on a bunch of five-minute episodes.

Fully realizing it what a fairly recent thing explained to me by reading some wiki pages.

How's "alpha" Tex dead? I thought she was the one that got sucked into the memory unit and Epsilon Church went in there to find her.

The original Tex was absorbed by Meta way back during Reconstruction. The one from Revelations was a backup copy, as best I can tell.

Although the first Church and Tex we were introduced to aren't really the "originals" either, they're AI imitations of Dr. Leonard Church (the Director) and Allison (the Director's dead love). That's why whether or not Epsilon Church and Epsilon Tex are "really" Church and Tex is a rather philosophical question.

Not really. Blood Gulch Church is dead. And he will never, ever come back...

[sheds a single tear]

I'm not sure I buy that "Alpha" Tex is dead. I know it raises questions (e.g. how she avoided the Meta when Omega couldn't), but being a new Tex raises even more from my perspective (e.g. how a copy of her was made without being attached to Epsilon).

But if someone with an identical personality and memories as you—in other words, an exact mental copy—suddenly comes into being after you die, how can you prove that's different than you coming Back from the Dead?

Going over a synopsis, I think Epsilon made her before being taken out of storage near the end of Reconstruction. Or has she shown to have Tex's memories of Blood Gulch?

Epsilon wasn't really acting like Church until he got the new body, and even then he wasn't really like Alpha Church until this season. Heck, while he was in the monitor his memories of the Blood Gulch crew came from what Caboose told him.

How would Tex become detached from the unit, though? If Epsilon can just remember AI fragments and split them off as distinct problems, why was the whole torture thing necessary? That explanation is a little too specific for me to accept it without more direct evidence anyway.

Revelation was somewhat unclear on whether Tex had the Blood Gulch memories or not. She said a few things that would be odd if she didn't remember, and a few things that would be odd if she did. It's referenced that the Reds and Blues had to catch her up on events; it would probably be a lot more clear if we'd just been told a little more about what that entailed. She does have a specific memory of trying to save Alpha, though.

One scenario is that the Freelancers discovered Epsilon made her while he was in storage, removed her from that unit, then moved her to the offsite storage facility in Revelations.

Both Texes were AI fragments but not a personality AI fragments like Delta or Omega, which was what the Freelancers were after.

edited 10th Aug '11 10:36:19 AM by thatother1dude

I'm drifting off point by arguing the specifics of that explanation. I said it raises questions; putting forward a possible answer to the question isn't the same as having the point actually answered. I'm not saying it's unreasonable for the current Tex to be a new one; just that I'm not personally leaning toward that idea.