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Shota Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#1: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:44:10 PM

Don't let the post title fool you. I'm actually talking about ANIMATING AS A JOB. The ACTUAL ACT of animating. Not the writing. Not the brainstorming. Not the storyboarding. Not the designing. Not the post-production. Not the recording. MAKING THINGS MOVE.

In college, watching them, and learning your own, what's the first thing you think of when you hear "animated cartoon"? The ACT OF DRAWING. Colleges focus on this exercise you do with your wrists and eyes. Yet you get out into Real Life and realize it's hardly the idea.

It's hard to realize the truth that studios consider this act as the most labor-intensive, expensive, and therefore unnecessary, element in this kind of film. No one wants to do it anymore, yet there are more and more animated films coming out than any time in history, with the actual studios and artists getting no recognition. Outsourcing has been going on for decades, but this point I am making does not concern this. These days, movies like Rango, Despicable Me, Hop, and even parts of The Princess And The Frog... are all outsourced to studios elsewhere in the world, while it's the actors featured on the soundtrack, the musicians, and the producers who get the credit.

How will this affect the future of getting to actually move things? Will it become even rarer a specialization than it already is? Will we forget how to exaggerate movement to make a point that you cannot get in live-action? Will animation departments in colleges die? Your opinions?

PDown It's easy, mmkay? Since: Jan, 2012
It's easy, mmkay?
#2: Mar 9th 2011 at 9:08:48 PM

I have to admit, this may sound very cold. But I personally don't care about retaining the jobs of animators. I care about retaining as many visual styles as possible. I would be personally saddened if we never see something traditionally animated-looking again, but I would barely care whether that traditionally animated-looking art was made by an American animator or a Korean animator or a computer imitating a human animator. I'm afraid of CGI replacing traditionally animated animation, but only in the sense that I'm afraid of one visual style wiping out the other. Not in the sense that I'm afraid of one technology wiping out another, or that I'm afraid of jobs being lost.

At first I didn't realize I needed all this stuff...
almyki from Maryland, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Mar 11th 2011 at 1:32:48 AM

Firstly, while the actual job of animating in the traditional sense of animating cartoons, movies, etc., may be complicated, I think that's looking at the occupation too narrowly. People with animation skills aren't restricted to that; they can also create web animations, Flash videos or games, commercials, interactive internet/computer media, etc.. These are big businesses that also need people who know how to make things move, and I doubt most businesses, especially small ones or ones that just need something quick or simple, are going to go to the trouble to outsource when plenty of qualified English-speaking local animators/graphic designers/etc. are right outside, probably hired and part of the web/design/graphics firm that they also go to for their other visual/marketing needs.

Second off, while I understand where you may be coming from, P Down, do you care about the livelihoods and wages of the actual animators that this work is being outsourced to? Do you care that many Japanese and especially Korean animators are often paid extremely little, where sometimes you can make more money flipping burgers or other no-skill jobs, they are often expected to work overtime unpaid or have even been locked into their studios until they finished their work, and still get little to no recognition? Sounds like sweatshop conditions, especially close to deadlines. Many animators express that their biggest reason for being an animator is their love of drawing and the art, and the hardest thing is the pay and hours. Is that okay, as long as there's still plenty of anime and cartoons to watch? There's a reason this stuff is outsourced, and that's because animators in America expect to get paid properly for skilled honest work, while if they outsource they can get tons of super-cheap labor and not have to care.

I heard that lately, there have been improvements to the situation of Korean animators, but because of that, there is less outsourcing going on there and it's being shifted to other places, like Japan or I-forget-where. So hopefully that positive direction keeps momentum. I've only read various bits on this subject in passing though, so anybody who knows much more or has yummy links, go ahead.

<3 ali

edited 11th Mar '11 1:34:46 AM by almyki

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TibetanFox Feels Good, Man from Death Continent Since: Oct, 2010
Feels Good, Man
#4: Mar 11th 2011 at 4:02:11 AM

Honestly is there any non-indie artist out there who doesn't get brutally fucked over these days?

I'm all for anything that levels the playing field and gives artists an opportunity to work around gatekeepers, interact with their fans directly and make a half-decent living off their work.

Shota Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#5: Mar 11th 2011 at 5:24:21 AM

What's even more annoying is that, not only is "animation" in the title of most studios while it's actually the position with the least input in all this AND is at the bottom of the chain, but they never give them credit in promotional material!

Roundy210 Since: Apr, 2009
#6: Mar 12th 2011 at 6:24:19 PM

this is starting to make me think over my plan to become an animator

Shota Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#7: Mar 12th 2011 at 6:37:43 PM

Good. Good to get a hold of reality to help you make a decision.

almyki from Maryland, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Mar 13th 2011 at 12:39:12 AM

To add to this, another quirky thing that people with animation degrees seem to be really darn good at is comics, illustrations, and related things. For some of my favorite artists, real talented people with a strong grasp on all the fundamentals of art/anatomy/perspective/etc., 'animation degree' seems to pop up a lot in their bios. But most/all of them don't actually animate for a living! I supposed if you're getting an animation degree, a good grasp of not just the body but also movement, gesture, expression, space, and framing is kind of a requirement.

<3 ali

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Shota Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#9: Mar 13th 2011 at 10:29:47 AM

An animator in theory has to know twice as much as an illustrator or comic artist, because in those two latter things, you're not responsible to know how something looks when it moves in time. The internet has introduced ways you can cross-utilize the two though.

Yeah, these days, studios with the word "animation" in the title usually do everything BUT.

Roundy210 Since: Apr, 2009
#10: Mar 15th 2011 at 3:15:20 PM

So...get an animation degree but stay away from the actual job?

Dec Stayin' Alive from The Dance Floor Since: Aug, 2009
Stayin' Alive
#11: Mar 19th 2011 at 3:53:33 AM

I supposed if you're getting an animation degree, a good grasp of not just the body but also movement, gesture, expression, space, and framing is kind of a requirement.

There's also the fact that with traditional animation, you're also learning how to do all of this stuff fast, because one frame is only worth 1/20 of a second. That's probably one of the main reasons I found going into animation so appealing a year ago, because if you're doing something like a daily comic, being able to get something that looks good out quickly is a major boon.

Nemo enim fere saltat sobrius, nisi forte insanit Deviantart.
JohnnyLurg Since: Dec, 2010
#12: Mar 19th 2011 at 3:28:05 PM

I think even indie artists get "brutally fucked over these days."

SatanicHamster Moldova, never change. Since: Jan, 2001
Moldova, never change.
#13: Mar 25th 2011 at 6:09:04 AM

Think some of you are confusing "animator" with "inbetweener". Animators are the ones that make the key frames poses. In many cases, they're the "actor" for an animated character. The inbetweener is the one that fills in the blanks between the key frames drawn by the animator. Their job is to make "pad" out the animation, so that the animation moves smoothly with minimum jerkiness.

While those two jobs seem similar, making frames of animation, the pay scales is very different. Animators get more money than the inbetweeners.

There's an inbetweener that posts around here. She describes her job as a thankless one and tends to get the blame for the mistakes that get made in the animation. The main reason she sticks with a thankless and low paying job is just for the love of the artform.

As jobs go, I don't think animators are in danger of losing jobs. It's just the inbetweener and ink & paint jobs that have uncertain futures.

almyki from Maryland, USA Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Mar 25th 2011 at 6:51:40 AM

To my knowledge, an 'animator' often has to work as an inbetweener, potentially for a long time before being qualified as a 'true animator'. And, for many 'animators' who do work other than traditional cartoon television animation, they likely have to make ALL the frames themselves, for short animations for independent work, quick loops or ads, etc..

I mildly considered getting a degree in animation once, and researched up on a few books. Apparently the highly-agreed upon 'bible' of animation is The Animator's Survival Kit, and it's quite cheap for such a thick and highly-illustrated tomb on Amazon. I own it, and while I never got to bother finishing the read, what I did read was very illuminating on the profession, so I recommend it to anybody who was thinking about animation as a degree so you can get a better understanding of what you're getting into. Another book I found mentioned pretty frequently was Preston Blair's Cartoon Animation book, cheaper and less bulky than the other book, and lastly I saw The Illusion of Life mentioned a few times, but it's much more expensive than both books (though matchingly thicker if the pagecount has anything to say) . For the third book, apparently getting the original edition from 1981 has higher-quality images and paper, because somethingsomething there's a review on Amazon, if you care. But, I haven't looked through the latter two books myself.

<3 ali

edited 25th Mar '11 6:55:12 AM by almyki

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SatanicHamster Moldova, never change. Since: Jan, 2001
Moldova, never change.
#15: Mar 26th 2011 at 7:52:19 AM

You considered a degree in animation? So you would know what I'm talking about when say "character animation" or "onion skin".

I do know a guy works for Pixar and a family friend who went to Calarts for a major in animation. I am somewhat aware about the technical side of animation. I am in awe of animators that can make two minute short all by themselves because I know how much work go on behind the scenes.

victorinox243 victorinox243 Since: Nov, 2009
victorinox243
#16: May 11th 2011 at 8:08:05 PM

The future will be big, and wild for animators. Movies and cartoons are but a narrow band of the spectrum they now have access to in the 21st century. The web in particular will have a high demand for interactive content, which must be animated. Graphic user interfaces are becoming more elaborate with touch screen technology.

Animators have a future.

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