Christian tropers, join together!

...I should check the Troper Coven sub-forum more than once a year....

But yeah. Non-denominational. I might have mentioned it elsewhere.

I personally don't believe in the existence of Purgatory. As far as Hell is concerned, I agree with what others have already mentioned, that Hell is simply a place that is permanently in the absence of God, and since it's much clearer just how much that sucks, it becomes a place of eternal regret.

This of course all stems from the fact that biblically, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e. the denial of even the slightest possibility that God might exist. Therefore, if you choose to take this path, the fact that it is only after death that the repercussions of this decision becomes clear is no one's fault but your own.

Huh. I thought that the "unforgivable sin" was something that entailed a hardening of the heart, such that it can't be forgiven because it causes one to simply never seek forgiveness.

In other words, it is forgivable, but by its very nature will never wind up being forgiven, because the person will never ever ask.

Personally, my main problem with the Catholic denomination is the praying to the saints and Mary thing. And the whole pope thing, for various other reasons. No offense, but a man shouldn't be places over the bible in terms of religious doctrine. Mind you, this is based off of my dad's tangents, so could be inaccurate.

Well, as I've learned, they don't pray to the saints, as much as ask the saints to pray on their behalf.

Still not a fan of the idea, personally, given my own views on God. To me, I don't see the need to ask anybody else to pray for me or phrase it better than I could. God knows what I want and need, and having others ask or phrase it better won't matter.

But that's just my views. I still have nothing but respect for my fellow Catholics. Peace, my wine-sippin' fellows.

I fail at eloquence badly enough that I wouldn't fault anyone for wanting someone a tad wiser to speak for them

And yeah, even as a Catholic I have some major problems with the Pope.

edited 9th Feb '11 9:30:56 PM by Pykrete

We watched a groovy little movie segment tonight, an interview with one Lynn Anderson. The gist of the interview he had was that it's perfectly okay to have doubts. As the man said to Jesus, "Lord I believe, but help me with my unbelief!"

I was encouraged a lot by those words.

@Kuiper: Do you ever ask another living Christian to pray for you?

If so, doesn't willingness to ask someone in the Church Militant to pray for you and unwillingness to ask someone in the Church Triumphant, i.e. "Saint [name], pray for us!", indicate disbelief in the Communion of Saints clause in the Apostles' Creed?

Please don't interpret something other Christians do uncharitably without making sure it isn't from the Apostles' or Nicene Creed. Sola scriptura isn't so literal as to mean "the Creed doesn't count."

I'm Catholic.

@Rott, Like I said, take what I said with a grain of salt. I'm not exactly well-versed in... well, anything. But while your point stands, and seems to make a bit of sense... I don't get why they ask dead saints to do so when they could just as well as living Christians. I mean, they're just as close to God. But that's just me.

The creed things news to me... Considering I have no idea what you're talking about. >.<

edited 10th Feb '11 6:03:22 PM by Kuiper

@Kuiper Not all living "Christians" are close to God, so one would assume that having faith in the prayers of those who proved themselves to have great faith would be more sensible.

@KCK, Point taken. Still... aren't the saints they ask to pray for them dead? It just seems odd to me, asking someone dead to pray for you. That is, if they can actually hear it. >.<

It just seems odd to me, asking someone dead to pray for you. That is, if they can actually hear it. >.<

They can, because they conquered Death by accepting grace through Christ.

Oh, and the Nicene Creed is the statement of faith ratified by the First Council of Nicea, to distinguish the orthodox from the gnostics and sundry heretics. It comes from the same time the New Testament canon was finalized.

In Lutheran services, it's the final part of the fixed liturgy before the sermon.

The Apostles' Creed is an earlier one.

-ventures into Covens for the first time-

Um...hello. Practicing Seventh Day Adventist here.

I don't accept the "praying to saints" thing because I was taught that death is like a sleep. Essentially, until the second coming, the saints are dead, so you can't really pray to them.

That... sounds kinda sci-fi. Freaking divine cryogenics, brah. I like it XD

EDIT: Sorry, sorry, I'm backing out now. Peace, and continue rocking on, Catholic peoples.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:00:12 PM by Diamonnes

@Yarrun Adventist? I actually attend one of your denomination's colleges.

@Kuniper That depends on how one views the state of death for the soul.

edited 10th Feb '11 9:21:48 PM by KCK

I always think that poor Saint Anthony got a bad deal there. He must get inundated with people asking him to help them find their glasses, car keys, pens, watches...

Meanwhile, Ambrose of Milan isn't exactly getting a huge line with those beekeepers. And bees apparently. You know, just in case we run into frigging sentient bees that need to throw a prayer.

edited 10th Feb '11 11:17:39 PM by Pykrete

I'm not hugely keen on the idea of praying to Saints for particular things. I do, however, like the idea of 'praying in the communion of saints', that by praying in the same liturgical tradition, you are in a state of spiritual solidarity with all others who have ever done the same, living or dead.

—is totally not christian—

—is in here anyway—

Oi. Christian people. Where can I find a short outline of the bible, so I can understand references in books, and not actually have to read the darn thing?

—is still gonna be here—

We should be praying to St Ambrose to save the bees from the colony collapse disorder...

I've never heard of something like that.

You could just search for the phrase, or ask here. A short outline would be rather undetailed, given the thousands of years and hundreds of people named.

Hey, never thought this thread would be made. Anyway, I'm UMC.

^ Not sure what that is.

I run sound at my Church, so we had a band practice. Had to tell the guitar players to tone it down so the lyrics (the important part) would come out clearer.

Any favorite praise and worship songs anyone has here? "It's Your Blood" can stick with me for quite a long time.

Most of the Christian songs I listen to are Relient K songs.

And United Methodist Church

edited 11th Feb '11 12:33:50 PM by Radd