This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Does Sam Jackson really count as Scary Black Man? I mean, he is almost always the Token Minority but he really isn't always a Scary Black Man.
Looney Toons: Osh, I think you left a word or three out of "(This is the same a Huge Schoolgirl usually isn't mean either.)"
re: Darth Vader — arguably, two technincalities.
Fly: ...Took the renegade extra T from the name of the Final Fantasy VII character (honestly, the manual calls him Barrett once, and...)
Etrangere: One of the fairly rare white Scary Black Men is Vin Diesel, in pretty much any role he's ever played. I'm pretty sure Vin Diesel is mixed race, so that's not that much of a subversion.
Air Of Mystery: That was me, sorry.
True. but his skin colour is light. So he is technically “white” If you get me...
gaeamil: Should this be mentioned? In Scrubs, Dr. Cox's black friend used a "scary black man" act to scare off JD. Cox then said "Scary black man. I like it."
[[Qit el-Remel]]: Lt. Caine
, from the webcomic "Goblins," might or might not count (although he's more of a Scary Dark Gray Man).
Phoenix: Does Worf really count? The character played by Michael Dorn is not technically black; but Klingon. The reason I draw the distinction is because General Martok is not played by a black actor, but a white one. However, both look Klingon...hence, there is nothing in Worf that distinguishes him as black, unless it holds for Martok as well...
Doctor Worm: I'd dispute the Serenity example. The Operative's menace comes from the cold and disturbingly polite way he kills people, not from his physical appearance. Being black is more or less irrelevant. For comparison, consider Jubal Early from the last episode of the TV series. He was physically menacing, far more than the Operative was.
For some reason I have trouble picturing the Operator as fitting in with the others. Is he shorter? Or maybe it's that he's both talkative and soft-spoken, or that he's never shown to be especially physically powerful (just a skilled fighter)? —Document N
Seanette: Removed "Scary Spice of Spice Girls. How'd we miss that one folks?" from Live-Action TV. She's also listed under Character Actors, which seems to fit better with a stage persona.
Cromage: Removed the Operative, Morpheus, and Kimahri from the list. Kimahri is clearly a Proud Warrior Race Guy, while I question the implicit racism in believing mild-mannered and fairly normal-framed yet combat-competent characters with dark skin are portrayed as "scary black men." (especially Morpheus, who takes a back seat to Neo and Smith in terms of overall combat capability) Also wondering how much you can derive from voice-actors, given that white people portray sinister characters all the time.
Chuckg: You can argue that the Operative, at least, is damn scary.
Chuckg: Removed Barack Obama. Physically fit, yes... but he's barely six-one and built like a long-distance runner, not a powerlifter. Doesn't meet the physical requirements.
Kendra Kirai: Just for the record, as the trope creator, I never intended for this to only be about black people...it just fit better than, say "Scary Minority Man" or something in a similar vein. Basically, anyone very large and imposing of stature fits, unless they're Boisterous Bruisers, who generally aren't that imposing or scary, except inadvertently. Thus, the bit of discussion around the Klingons doesn't really matter...they're all pretty scary, with their leather and metal armor, generally large size, and near glee when beating something big and nasty to a pulp with their bare hands. In the same vein, Kimahri (and pretty much every other Ronso) from Final Fantasy X should also be included, as they're the biggest sentient beings on Spira, very, very imposing, and appear to generally be in less than pleasant moods. Just because they're a Proud Warrior Race Guy does NOT preclude also being a Scary Black Man, neither does being a Gentle Giant. Basically, if the character can make somebody who has no idea of what they do for a living pee themselves in fear just by looking down at them sternly or dispassionately, that's a Scary Black Man.
Rebochan: Wait, then why call the trope the Scary Black Man and immediately associate it with racial stereotyping of black men when you didn't even want that? You're giving an insanely broad definition to a trope with an extremely concise name. One that also invokes some sensitive issues. Seriously, "Bigged Pissed Off Guy" is not a racial stereotype. Scary Black Man is definitely a racial stereotype. You can't just label something that isn't even human a Scary Black Man when they are neither black nor human.
Rebochan: And so in that vein, I pulled this silly set of examples. Somebody needs to take a pickaxe to this page, it's a wreck!
- Included on a technicality is Darth Vader. The man inside the suit is Dave Prowse, a white man, but the voice is James Earl Jones, who is black.
- Despite having a rather unimpressive physique, Jones' *voice* is impressive enough that he can pull off roles that basically fit this stereotype — see playing the King in Coming To America — or, hell, playing Mufasa in The Lion King. Or, you know, Thulsa Doom in Conan The Barbarian. Or the Emperor of the Night from the otherwise forgettable animated movie of the same name, where he crosses over to just plain Scary territory.
- Also, he's big, scary, and he only ever wears black.
- Some see Chewbacca as an inadvertent echo of this trope.
Wait, wait. Anything with a deep voice is a Scary Black Man...and in the case of Mufasa, when they're not even supposed to be scary at all.
Kendra Kirai: First off, I never associated the trope with stereotyping of black men, somebody else came along and did that. I stated in the original that it's usually black men because they're often the biggest qualified actors casting can find who aren't sumo wrestlers (Who really aren't that scary to most people, just weird) or professional wrestlers doing a cameo shot.
Second of all, the original for Vader was simply 'Included on a technicality is Darth Vader'. It was a joke, because he was big, he was scary, and he was HEAD TO TOE IN JET BLACK. Once again, somebody else came along and added the stuff about David Prowse and James Earl Jones.
The bit about Chewbacca however, is valid, 'cause he's seven feet tall, naked, hairy, and has teeth the size of your thumb.
Amazingly, you see, these "Wiki" things? Can be edited by anybody who comes along. Sometimes they misunderstand the original intent of the article. Sometimes their misunderstanding makes it better. Sometimes it doesn't. My view on the articles I make are to let them evolve as the tropers read them. This time, I felt the focus was getting a little bit off-track...which is why I wrote what I did about the original intent of the article. Getting upset at me for trying to bring it back to the (attempted) race-agnostic intent is about as useful and welcome as a drunk accountant assisting in brain surgery.
Now, if you would please get down off your high horse and calm the hell down, maybe we can get back to troping, mm?
Rebochan: You don't see why actually invoking racial caricatures in the trope title could cause problems like this? If you just want "Big Scary Man/Critter", it's not helpful to file it under a trope that associates it with a racial archetype. And for what it's worth, yes, there is a "Scary Black Man" stereotype. It's considered quite negative, along the lines of the Magical Negro.
