Locked Pages: Lock, UnLock and Edit requests

Sideboob: {{Fallout}} 3 should be ''VideoGame/{{Fallout 3}}''

I now go by Graf von Tirol.

Something Awful:

1. The Flash Tub to WebAnimation/
2. A Circular Link in the description for "A Darker Me"
3. Ted Nugent to Music/
4. Smashing Pumpkins to Music/ (Also, you'll have to make it Music.The Smashing Pumpkins as the link target [note the "the"], since Music.Smashing Pumpkins is a Red Link, or make a redirect.)
5. Even Evil Has Standards: on- and off-board (not "an"). Also, "a obligational" (not a word) should be "an obligatory".

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Let's Play - Too many things to list here, including grammar fixes, namespaces, etc. I'd really like to hard split the page and spin off the recommendations (after cleaning up for style) into a separate page, but I have no clue how to go about doing that, nor would I feel comfortable doing so without Special Efforts or TRS consensus.

I'm going to sandbox this one and work on it this evening. Well, I would, but there's already one in use and I don't want to disturb it.

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Big Bra to Fill: Lots of namespacing:

1. Fantastic Four to Franchise/ for the pothole in the picture.
2. Mahou Sensei Negima to Manga/ (Also, there's a hottip there. It's arguably just natter anyway, so it could possibly just be deleted without incident.)
3. Bleach to Manga/
4. Cutie Honey to Anime/
5. Sailor Moon to Manga/. Also, it's potholed to a character's name, so I think it would match our guidelines to write the example as "While in the anime and manga versions of Sailor Moon, Sailor Jupiter is known to have a large chest, she is..."
6. Spider Man to Spider-Man (Yeah, you have to include the dash, since the page is not a wiki word.)
7. Batman And Robin needs to either go to Film/
8. Batman Returns to Film/
9. Dead Or Alive to VideoGame/ - since it refers to the movie, it would appear to be in the proper folder.
10. Watchmen to Film/
11. Fantastic Four to Film/ in the folder
12. Street Fighter to Franchise/ - but leave the pothole alone on Ming-Na, since they're referring to two different films of the game.
13. The Fog to Film/
14. True Blood to Series/
15. Dexter to Series/
16. Need For Speed to VideoGame/
17. Spinnerette to Webcomic/
18. Final Fantasy VII Advent Children to Anime/
19. Porn Tropes needs to be de-potholed.

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Just A Face And A Caption:

1. In paragraph six, "from all sorts of fandom..." (fandom should be pluralized to fandoms)
2. "That's why we have the different media" - This sentence seems... off-putting. I'd be more comfortable with "That's why we have examples from a wide variety of media - we want to attract people from all media, both as readers and as contributors."
3. Richard Wagner to Creator/
4. I would suggest merging the short sentence ending with Wagner in with the previous. I like this construction "...Wagner, and as a result, images should not be added under the assumption that the reader knows about the work being depicted - images should serve to create interest in that work."
5. The next sentence is also pretty off-putting. I'd suggest "If we appear uninterested in an individual's favorite works (or appear to prefer to emphasize other works), our ability to attract editors and broaden the wiki's scope is stifled. This is the path to niche-dom"
6. The image for True JAFAAC needs to have the pothole namespaced to Franchise/
7. In the sixth bullet for Not Actually JAFAAC (Often, ...), there is a "but" after the second comma that needs to be removed.

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Fox News Channel - "Hannity" in the opening paragraph has non-functioning size-up markup that can be removed.

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Literotica: Hottip needs to be removed.

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Literature.Lolita:

1. Vladimir Nabokov to Creator/
2. Edgar Allan Poe to Creator/. Again in the description for The Lost Lenore
3. A space before Trope Namer in paragraph 3.
4. In general, the entire description is full of sentence fragments. If this is intentional, it should be noted.
5. Affably Evil - After Diabolus ex Machina, while it's technically grammatically correct, the sentence would flow more smoothly if the words "is made" are inserted after "his way"
6. Author Avatar - "...Nabakov protagonists who..." - There needs to be a comma after "who" here.
7. Bottle Fairy was renamed to Hard-Drinking Party Girl
8. Children Are Innocent - "See Fridge Brilliance below" needs to be removed - contents are moved to Fridge/, so it's wrong to have as much in the article.
9. Fille Fatale - While Unreliable Narrator is in effect, Examples Are Not Arguable, so it would be better written by making a note of that using the note markup.
10. Freudian Excuse "Neither he nor the author" (not or). Also, "You see" is poor style and probably Word Cruft as well. The long sentence beginning with "Considering" should have a comma after the end parenthesis (with the word "and" removed), and then the words "and really" replaced with "and also". In addition, please change "Also, consider that" with "In addition,"
11. Gratuitous French - the second sentence of the second subpoint is natter.
12. Kill Em All - Examples don't happen in the past tense, so the first sentence needs to be changed to the present tense. In the third sentence, it should be "ends up in jail, and..." (end -> ends, and then a comma after jail).
13. Look Both Ways - The final sentence should be changed to "However, while crossing the street to post letters to set her plan in motion, she is killed..."
14. Overprotective Dad - I think "banging his little girl" is more lewd than we want here. I'll defer to the judgement of whoever gets to make the edit to decide on how exactly it should be written, but I think changing that to "sleeping with his daughter" is a bit more in line with No Lewdness No Prudishness
15. Rule of Symbolism - The colon after "broken" should be a comma.
16. Tastes Like Diabetes - Needs to be a "the" after to "...to the girly magazines..."
17. Unreliable Narrator has a lot of natter and word cruft that can be chainsawed.
18. Wife Husbandry - The third sentence can be axed.
19. You Are Grounded! "You know" is Word Cruft. And bad style to boot.

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VideoGame.Final Fantasy VII

1. Final Fantasy to Franchise/
2. Square Enix to Creator/
3. The Advent Children link should be to Anime.Final Fantasy VII Advent Children
4. Dirge Of Cerberus to VideoGame/
5. Crisis Core to VideoGame/
6. Before Crisis to VideoGame/
7. Two more links to Advent Children - they can be de- Wiki-Worded
8. Another Squeenix Wiki Word
9. Apocalypse How is referring to the old class system. Please change to "... but it seems to be anywhere from global-scale mass-extinction to planetary destruction"
10. Backtracking has some rhetorical questioning that seems a bit inappropriate and out of tone. I'd suggest it be changed to "This is required to get all the items from the three-way split in North Cave. You can get multiples of some items if you do everything correctly."
11. A comma after Cait Sith in Becoming the Mask
12. Another Advent Children wick in Belated Happy Ending. Needs to be de-wicked or namespaced.
13. "Blind Idiot" Translation - While the third-level bullet point is a good explanation, it's also sort of nattery. I would advise making it a note on the immediately preceding point.
14. Boss Battle is an index, and the various subtropes need to be moved appropriately.
15. The Chessmaster needs to have proper example indentation. There's another Main.Advent Children wick here.
16. Cluster F-Bomb - the second level bullet should either be deleted as natter or made as a note.
17. Did They or Didn't They? - We have one trope name (Fade to Black) with a pothole to another (Sexy Discretion Shot). I would suggest "...ends with a Fade to Black", with a note stating: "Possibly doubling as a Sexy Discretion Shot"
18. Dungeon Crawling, a supertrope, is being used as bullets for various subtropes, which should be moved accordingly.

edited 11th Jul '12 10:28:46 PM by DarkConfidant

There are a couple of things bugging me on the Adolf Hitler page. Please bear with me. I wish I could do this myself but I'm not a mod.

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General (scattered throughout)

• Friedrich Nietzsche to Creator.Friedrich Nietzsche
• Mein Kampf to Literature.Mein Kampf
• Whatever you can do about a couple examples with a Wall of Text (the ones that bug me the most are Evil Uncle and Older Than They Think).
• Example Indentation errors, too many to count, I'll mention a couple of them.
• Destroy all of those hottips.

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Tropes about Hitler

• Beyond the Impossible: within the note, Nietzsche Wannabe is misspelled as Nietzche Wannabe
• Praising Shows You Don't Watch is in a weird spot between Dark Messiah and Disproportionate Retribution.
• The Dora Gun (potholed to BFG) is between Doomsday Device and Driven to Suicide. The way that entry is presented just bugs the hell out of me. I can't figure out if it's supposed to be an entry underneath Doomsday Device or if The Dora Gun was treated as a trope. Whatever the case, please make it neater.
• General Ripper: The quote underneath needs only two dashes not three.
• Hitler Is Cthulhu/The Antichrist/God of Evil: I do not like the way the three tropes are squished together, literally, format speaking. Maybe make it Trope / Trope?
• Lucky Bastard is in a weird spot between Made of Iron and Magnificent Bastard.
• Mook Promotion: World War I should be World War One and add a period at the end of the sentence.
• Mother Russia Makes You Strong is between Murder Is the Best Solution and Names The Same. Put in the correct alphabetical order.
• The Starscream and Straight Edge Evil are both underneath Totalitarian Utilitarian.

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Works with Hitler in them

• Turn this: 'They took out the Hitler building! Where's everyone going to go to see Hitler memorabilia?" into something along the lines of "In the Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode "Invasion Of The Neptune Men"..."
• The Simpsons example has Example Indentation issues and the bullet right underneath the main bullet needs rewriting.
• Inglourious Basterds to Film.Inglourious Basterds.
• Captain Planet to WesternAnimation.Captain Planet And The Planeteers. 'A Good Bomb Is Hard To Find' should be "A Good Bomb Is Hard To Find".
• Family Guy to WesternAnimation.Family Guy.
• Robot Chicken to WesternAnimation.Robot Chicken.
• In Axis Powers Hetalia example, there should be a comma between "Hetalia" and "Hitler".
• Epic Rap Battles Of History to WebVideo.Epic Rap Battles Of History

Is there a brave mod willingly to fix all of this for me? Thank you very much in advance.

edited 12th Jul '12 12:57:36 AM by Indigo12ash

Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.

We agreed that Sa'Luk is not a Complete Monster. He is also on Disney page and he should be removed.

I have a few requests for the Mass Effect 2 Archive 2 headscratcher page. I'm not really sure of the official policy on editing headscratchers, and in fact I posted a question about it on Wiki Talk several weeks ago which nobody answered. Anyway, these are all questions either explicitly answered by Mass Effect 3, or contain false information. Facts and figures not open to interpretation, so no worries that I'm deleting someone's philosophical conversation.

These folders should all be deleted:

The Illusive Man's Location - Explicitly addressed in ME 3

Tech Armor Mechanics - Explicitly addressed in ME 3

Cheating in Mass Effect 2 - This really isn't a headscratcher, just people speculating on the consequences of cheating (on your love interest) in the next game. Since the game is out, this can go.

What Were Those Statures From Ilos - First of all, this has an official answer. Second, the question 'comes up' in ME 1 and is 'answered' in ME 3, so it shouldn't be on a ME 2 page. If someone's curious, they can reopen the question on one of those pages.

The Hammerhead's Hovering - Flat wrong information. Someone who didn't do their homework complaining about a technical explanation that is absolutely not there in the game.

The PS 3 Port - Just speculation on how the PS 3 will incorporate decisions from earlier games in ME 3. Since ME 3 is out, this can go.

If this is all approved, I'll request edits on the other archived pages as well. This one needs the most help.

edited 12th Jul '12 11:55:13 AM by David7204

We don't edit archives. Period.

If you have something to ask, make a new post on the open page. Archived means that there is nothing to answer anymore.

edited 12th Jul '12 11:55:29 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

...So no matter what is on an archive, it stays there for the rest of forever? No matter how badly the page is written? There's no way for me to clean them up?

And that is simply not true. New information becomes available as the story develops.

edited 12th Jul '12 11:58:15 AM by David7204

If the page is completely worthless junk, to the Cut List it goes. Otherwise, nothing happens.

edited 12th Jul '12 11:58:13 AM by SeptimusHeap

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Is there a reason for this? I thought the whole point of locking archives was so pages didn't hit the 500k limit and crash the server. That isn't going to be a problem for my edits I'm suggesting.

No, the problem is that once archived, something is over, done. There is no need for anyone to waste time for anything there.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

That is absolutely ridiculous. These questions are not "done" because the story is not "done." I thought the entire purpose of a headscratchers page was so fans could get answers to the questions they have. That purpose goes completely down the drain if those answers can't factor in new and relevant information.

I've looked at these pages, and a lot of these entries are nothing but garbage. Duplicate questions, misleading and false information, whining, lousy answers. Yet it's holy ground just because they were lucky enough to put it in earlier than other people?

edited 12th Jul '12 12:06:08 PM by David7204

I think that this post gives better answers. And this whole discussion is perhaps better suited for that thread.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Headscratchers is indeed for people to talk about issues that they don't understand in a work. However, there are issues in which pages can only get so long before the system has problems processing and parsing the page. If it gets too big (over 500,000 characters), trying to edit the page will crash the server altogether, with lesser problems starting at around the 400,000 mark. The issue is that popular works - the Mass Effect series among them - will often have a lot of unanswered questions, What Happened to the Mouse? instances, and the like that puzzle people, and as a result, those pages get very long. The archives don't serve as editable pages where new information can be updated - they serve to archive past discussion on the site, while letting the new page continue to fill up without crashing the system. Obviously, if pages could be 5,000,000 characters long, we wouldn't need archives, but that's not going to happen since it's hard-coded in the site's software.

The thing is, we do allow new information to be talked about and discussed, but we don't allow the archives to be edited anymore, and as such, the proper way to enlighten the page is to make a note of a discussion in an archive, possibly linking to the archived page, and then continuing on the note.

edited 12th Jul '12 12:11:26 PM by DarkConfidant

David, we are not unlocking the archives. The dumb questions, duplicate information, misinformed guesses, whining, and other things you are so upset about will just have to stay there. If you want to discuss them, follow the rules that have been established. If you do not wish to follow the rules, we have nothing more to talk about.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I really resent being treated like a delinquent who's too stupid to understand basic rules just for trying to get proper information. This isn't in the Administrivia and it isn't made clear on the headscratchers page. I've already gotten contradictory information.

I haven't done anything wrong. I asked a question on the forums, I didn't get a satisfying answer, and I came here.

I'm not happy with the answers I've gotten here. Where can I go to discuss this that will get a reponse within a week?

edited 12th Jul '12 12:45:27 PM by David7204

Did through 3202 for now.

@Dark Confidant- It's okay to use the redirect Advent Children instead of the mouthful Anime.Final Fantasy VII Advent Children as long as the correct name is mentioned at the top, in my opinion. No one calls it by the full name, and that's one of the things redirects are for.

Additionally, Boss Battle is a supertrope/index, so using it as a trope is perfectly kosher. I also have no problem with people organizing tropes under the supertrope when it makes things neater. Others may feel differently, but I see no reason to shuffle them around.

edited 12th Jul '12 1:01:02 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

I'm of the opinion that it obscures the organization of the page.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Ccoa: While neither you nor I have a particular problem with it, I know that Fast Eddie has specifically stated that he doesn't like to see supertropes/subtropes listed as such.

This came up in an Ask The Tropers discussion that I know we were both involved in about two months back regarding Example Indentation on Outside-the-Box Tactic.

Also, regarding the edits to Just A Face And A Caption: This sentence still could use fixing:

"So, images shouldn't be added under the assumption that people are already in the fandom, they must be added to get people to get involved in it."

I've suggested the following: "As a result, images shouldn't be added under the assumption that people are familiar with the work in question; images should serve to create interest in the work."

edited 12th Jul '12 1:09:24 PM by DarkConfidant

Personally, I think it makes the page more organized and cleaner.

Perhaps we should discuss this elsewhere, however.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

That's acceptable - would this be a Wiki Talk discussion then?

Yes

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

A couple of things to say about the Hitler page:

1. Thank you Lu for fixing most of things I mentioned.
2. Shouldn't Hitler be in the Useful Notes namespace?

If number two is correct, then may I please have permission to go to the source page with all of the markup and stuff, and paste it into the correct namespace? It'll also give me a chance to really scrub the page and then a mod can lock up after me. I know I'm not a mod but may I please be trusted with that responsibility?

Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.

If that is the case, why don't we create Sandbox.Adolf Hitler, scrub it out, and then it can be moved once it's been cleaned, after which the lock can be put back on and Main.Adolf Hitler can be made a redirect to the Useful Notes page.

That seems to be the best way to go about cleaning out problematic pages that need locks due to edit wars or trolling/vandalism.

edited 12th Jul '12 1:51:19 PM by DarkConfidant

Folks, why is that page locked again? A argument about captions?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Thank you for the idea Dark. I shall do so.

So that's why it's locked? That's slightly pathetic.

edited 12th Jul '12 3:45:26 PM by Indigo12ash

Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.