Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
I hate spoilers
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Richard Fisk already accepted? I think I can remember him being listed for S:TAS, but it also seems like he's disappeared.
Everyone look at my sandbox
Woagh
I think you're thinking of his comic counterpart that IIRC was also approved.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Richard Fisk, the Nocturne Duo and Bucky.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Comics Richard is up, as is this show's Wilson but I don't remember this show's Richard ever being EPed.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on May 8th 2024 at 9:02:01 AM
Alright, I've got a rather unusual proposition for this thread, but rest assured, I'm perfectly aware of what I'm doing:
What's The Work?
Gortimer Gibbon's Life on Normal Street is a Prime Video original series that made history as the first show on the service targeted towards kids: Don't get me wrong, it's a fan favorite for teens and adults as well (for several well-deserved reasons) and deserves a lot more attention today than it gets... but we're getting ahead of ourselves. The show centers on titular Gortimer Gibbon, an all-around Nice Guy and loyal companion who manages life on his street/town of Normal Street (nice name, by the way) as well as childhood struggles with his two closest friends, Ranger Bowen, and Melody "Mel" Fuller (plus some additional recurring characters such as jokester Stanley Zielinski, Teen Genius Catherine Dillman, and Shrinking Violet Abigail Arroyo).The show's sort of a cross between a Slice of Life series, and an Urban Fantasy. Strange, abnormal events and items are always occurring and popping up, and yet most of the characters are completely used to it, and barely even notice most of the time. Usually the strangeness is used as an allegory as a way to teach the characters a lesson, and the storylines tend to be episodic (aside from the season finales), and can be watched in pretty much any order. And thus, you should have no problem watching the episode for my candidate from the Season 2B episode "The Mystery of the Marlow Mansion".
Who's The Candidate?
In this episode, the main child cast is invited to 1920s mystery-themed party celebrating the legacy and works of Polly Marlow — a famous and beloved novelist within the show's universe. In addition, all six of the main child characters were assigned to dress up as and play characters from Marlow's books:- Ranger Bowen was assigned to play Tex Matthews, an oil baron "with no scruples when it comes to his precious black gold"
- Abigail Arroyo was assigned to play Anita Carmichael, a famous, attractive jazz singer in New York
- Stanley Zielinski was assigned to play a hobo named Beans
- Mel Fuller was assigned to play Fanny Flannagan, a southern belle who's the toast of every party.
- Catherine Dillman was assigned to play Emily Lynn Jones, an archeologist and adventurer with a long-lost younger sister
- ...and finally, my candidate for the write-up: Gortimer Gibbon got the role of renowned actor Raymond Bloodstone.
You're probably wondering why I listed all of the characters everyone was assigned to play during the party. Simple answer: Because when the party ended and Gortimer and his friends (still dressed as their characters) stuck around to clean up, there was a thunderstorm going on outside, and some lightning knocked out the lights for a few seconds and traps everyone in the roles of their characters... literally. Plus, shortly afterwards the golden owl brooch with ruby eyes — which was a gift to the author from President Coolidge, and used as a prop for the party — went missing, and was no doubt stolen by someone.
What Has Raymond Done? (Spoilers, but you knew that.)
- For most of the episode, we're led to believe that Gortimer was the only person who was unaffected by the storm due to supposedly being outside when the lightning hit, as Gortimer was still acting like himself, but everyone else was too deep in their roles to properly recognize him. And as previously mentioned, the golden owl was missing, leading the characters to have to find the culprit. Spoiler alert: Gortimer was indoors and was effected by the storm, getting trapped as Raymond Bloodstone, who may I remind you is a Master Actor, and thus all of Gortimer's interactions with his friends are a cunning deception from Bloodstone who's actually the owl thief.
- With the golden owl missing, "Gortimer" told his friends that since they were the only ones in the room, someone would think one of them did it. First, Tex is suspected to be the thief due to being closest to the display case, and walking confidently, despite having shares in General Aviation, but Tex is proven innocent due to the brooch being a gift from the president, whom he hated. This breaks Ranger out of his Tex act, and he's himself again. Meaning that proving the characters innocent or finding the guilty party would change everyone back into themselves.
- So then Ranger and "Gortimer" bring the others to a separate room saying they were all suspects and couldn't leave until the culprit was found. Despite "Gortimer"'s subtle attempts to incriminate the characters, someone else would prove each of the remaining characters innocent in one way or another and they'll all be changed back: Beans (Stanley) wanting to steal food rather than valuables (without even considering selling the food for money) Fanny's (Mel's) claustrophobia making her unable to go through a tight space, Anita (Abagail) having clumsy hands who can't hold on to anything, and Emily (Catherine) not caring less about money, just wanting her long-lost sister back.
- With (mostly) everyone back to themselves, it seemed like nobody took the owl, and there was never a real mystery, especially after "Gortimer" claims Sara (the manager cleaning up) may have took it and left when she felt really sick. The cast decides to just finish cleaning up, and "Gortimer" claimed he was tired and nearly convinces everyone to leave... but then Ranger points out that "Gortimer"'s shoes didn't leave any mud, despite the latter supposedly being outside in the pouring rain, and didn't actually take the trash out like he claimed he would. These details, plus the real Gortimer being so honest and truthful, tips Ranger (and by extension the rest of the gang) off that "Gortimer" wasn't really himself, but rather Raymond Bloodstone playing Gortimer! Exposed, Raymond reveals himself at last, and goes on a Motive Rant about how he was tired of being seen as "a hammy third-rate actor", and never getting the recognition he felt he deserved, especially since he fooled everyone with his Gortimer performance. He stole the owl because it was in honor of one's "incomparable talent and dramatic genius", and from the president, no less. He just wanted to be recognized for his acting skills. Ranger and Mel admit that Bloodstone's performance was amazing, and that he had them fooled despite Gortimer being their best friend, even clapping for his performance. Bloodstone would graceful accept their praise, and thank them for their applause, taking a bow... which finally changes Gortimer back into himself.
Is He Magnificent?
Absolutely! In the show's universe, Raymond Bloodstone is a Master Actor who's a made a career of his skills both as a thief and as a stage performer. And he tends to treat nearly everyone and everything around his props and co-stars. Considering Raymond has appeared in several stories by Polly Marlow, and was one of the characters selected for the party, it's safe to assume he's one of the most iconic characters in the Marlow-verse, and if the character's role in this episode is anything to go off of, he deserves it.After being brought to life by the lightning storm, Raymond ended up in Gortimer's body and studied his host's body and life, by looking through his things and actually taking the time to get to know his host so he could impersonate him, and with Gortimer Gibbon having a Loved by All status amongst the neighborhood, it wasn't hard for Raymond to convince everyone to trust him and get away heinous actions, because his host is the last person anyone would ever suspect. It's not just a Moment of Awesome for Raymond, it's one for his actor, Sloane Morgan Siegel too, who really gets show his wide acting range in this episode. Also Raymond's the one who shut down the electricity to the place, long enough to steal the owl, but he make it seem like the storm knocked the power out. The owl was cleverly hidden away in his mouth of the little skull he was always holding, which the characters would be unlikely to look.
His performance is so complete and so elaborate he successfully fooled everyone into thinking he was really Gortimer, including the audience for most of the episode — even Gortimer's childhood friends, who know the real Gortimer better than anyone, fell for the act! While posing as Gortimer, he would subtly use some of the characters' accusations and the suspects' mannerisms and lines to try and incriminate them, making them seem like the culprit. Even if they never stick, he'd keep up the act and continue his deception, and he almost gets away with it, and likely would have if Ranger hadn't noticed a hole in Raymond's story. Even Ranger, Mel and Stanley admitted that his performance was Gortimer was brilliant.
Is He a Bastard?
Yes he is, he's the mastermind behind the theft of the golden owl, and is implied to have made a reputation of his deceptive acting. He also took advantage of Gortimer's friends by impersonating him, and using suspicious lines to subtly frame them for his stealing.Edited by SpaceProtagonist on May 10th 2024 at 5:56:24 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
to Fisk, the Nocturne duo, Bucky and Raymond.
I have a candidate I plan to post later today.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Boy Kills World discussion is tomorrow, and...if somebody else here has seen the film, please send me a PM. I'd appreciate a second opinion on a character.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Caesar
Yes to Fisk, the Winter Soldier and the Nocturne duo!
Just to make it clear since I had forgotten to add it to the dates before today, calling Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Fisk, Raymond, Bucky, and the Nocturne guys
Not the Eye
Nocturne duo, Winter Soldier and Bloodstone
Richard Fisk, Winter Soldier and Raymond Bloodstone.
for Raymond Bloodstone.
Got a quote proposal.
yes for The Fortune Teller quote
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Raymond Bloodstone. Gonna snag Bad Boys: Ride or Die as well for next month.
The Emperor of Evil!
Here's my second MB proposal, which I do once in a blue moon. Here's one with some potential.
What's The Work?
Captain Flash is another Public Domain superhero about a scientist named Keith Spencer who gained his powers of Super-Strength and durability after shielding his students from exposed radiation. Now becoming the protector of Atom City with his sidekick Ricky Davis, fighting all kinds of foes. It lasted for like 4 issues.
There's only one villain I think could count. The villain of the fourth story of the series.
Who Is The Actor?
- An escaped convict named "Handsome" Harry Sullivan who met a chemist who uses a liquid that can change his appearance into anyone he pleases. He takes advantage of a prison riot disguising himself as a prison guard and escapes the prison he was held in.
- He and his crew plan to go on to robbing a bank, knocking out a bank president and using the liquid to disguise himself as him. He proceeds to steal loads of cash and in a few weeks became rich. He later goes to rob a store, being chased by Captain Flash and his sidekick Ricky. He manages to escape the clutches of the heroes by disguising himself as an ordinary citizen.
- Upon learning that Ambassador Osaki asked the US to lend in three ounces of Radium to cancer patients in his country, The Actor tries to steal it to make a profit off of it. Knocking out Keith Spencer, Flash's real identity, and taking his appearance and manages to take the Radium. It wasn't until Captain Flash arrives which prompts The Actor to make his escape.
- He has his minion try to stall Flash as much as possible, even having his men take the same guise as him to fool Captain Flash and almost escapes. Until he is finally caught and sent to prison, not before vowing that he'll return.
Is He Magnificent?
I argue yes, he's an clever Master of Disguise who outwits his opponents and manages to trick Captain Flash, a genius scientist, using his disguises to escape prison and get away from bank robbery and thefts. Even almost tricking Captain Flash once again by having his poses to use the exact same disguise as him to catch him off guard. Compared to other villains, who are mad scientists and evil geniuses, this guy sticks out as the most clever and skilled of them while the others are smart but don't show too much of the magnificence.
Is he too bad?
He knocks his victims out but never kills them, and is a serial theft who robs banks and is okay stealing radium meant for cancer patients to make a profit, but he's far from the worse Captain Flash has faced, such as Mirror Man who's essentially a sadistic killer who feeds off of people and taunts his enemies over it, or other villains like Iron Mask or Mirago who tries to commit mass murder. Even him stealing radium meant for cancer patients isn't exactly given weight to show him as a true monster, and he's a pretty standard villain here.
Final Verdict
I'll leave it up to you.
Sure to the Actor.
Goku Black
actor
Not the Eye
Actor
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 10th 2024 at 4:36:05 AM
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Alright, so with a tally of 7 and 1 abstain for Nightbird, 8 for Mara-Al-Utha, and 9 for Dirk Manus, here's my write-ups for The Transformers candidates:
- "Enter the Nightbird": Nightbird is a robotic ninja created by Dr. Fujiyama to showcase the advances humanity has made in the field of robotics. When Nightbird is captured by the Decepticons, she is reprogrammed and ordered to steal a chip containing information on the world's energy sources from the Ark. Nightbird uses her ninja skills to bypass the Ark's defences and steals the world energy chip while making a quick escape. The Autobots attempt to hunt her down, but Nightbird is able to disable and evade them despite being severely outnumbered. Among her tricks include pretending to be deactivated, stealing Optimus Prime's rifle, and using a missile launched at her to jam up Cliffjumper's glass gas. Megatron himself is impressed by Nightbird's talents and declares her one of the best soldiers he's ever had.
- "Madman's Paradise": Mara-Al-Utha is a Quintesson who was banished to the realm of Menonia for studying the forbidden art of sorcery. After taking on the identity of the Red Wizard, he studied under the Golden One to hone his magical skills before sealing his mentor away in a cave. Mara-Al-Utha took over Menonia in the Golden One's absence and forced the entire kingdom into slavery under his reign. When Grimlock and Daniel are accidentally transported to Menonia, Mara-Al-Utha pretends to be a benevolent ruler and tricks Grimlock into helping him crush the rebellion that was formed against him. When Daniel and the Autobots free the Golden One, Mara-Al-Utha uses his powers to weaken the Golden One and nearly succeeds in maintaining his tentacled grip over Menonia.
- "Money Is Everything": Dirk Manus is an intergalactic smuggler who will to do any job so long as he gets paid. When he makes a deal with the Quintessons to sell them a Recreator, Dirk finds himself attacked by Hun-Gurr and is forced to making a landing on Earth. He offers to sell out the Quintessons's location for a fee, while secretly planning on luring the Technobots to Titan and handing them over as prisoners. Dirk seduces Marissa Fairborne and proceeds with his plan, while secretly rigging the Recreator to blow up if the Quintessons attempt to double-cross him again. When this plan backfires, Dirk takes Marissa hostage and pretends to use the Recreator to destroy the Technobots so he can heal their injuries and drive the Quintessons away. Dirk later attempts to escape with the credits seized by the EDC as he says his goodbyes to Marissa. When he learns she replaced it with mimic dust, Dirk laughs it off and is genuinely impressed by her double-cross.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
for the Actor.
Would like more votes on my proposed quote up above.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Fortune Teller quote
to the Actor and the Fortune Teller quote
Dagded Dujardin
Actor and Fortune Teller
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
to Richard Fisk and Winter Solider.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE