Misused: BerserkButton

It looks good indeed. Good job cleaning it up.

So I just want to reactivate this to ask about something I hadn't thought about. The definition of "trigger". The whole thing is that it must be something specific. Yet there are things that seem to broad like "Questioning his authority" or "getting on his way." And I would even count when they place a character themselves as the button, as I have seen a lot of examples saying, "Alice is a Berserk Button for Bob."

I honestly thing this should be considered misuse and deleted since it goes against the idea that there is something specific to anger them.

I don't think "questioning authority" and "getting in his way" count as Berserk Button anyway because one reasonably expects someone to get angry at those things.

Yeah, those can be axed.

Well, yeah, they are misuse in that way, but my point was mostly on things being too broad to count. Like if something said, "Anything to do with education" or something else that is not very specific. And again, also when someone says that a character themselves is a berserk button for another character. That's where I am not sure how to deal with.

IMO, I think if a certain subject enrages them disproportionately, it still counts. If mentioning or seeing a certain person enrages them, if they have no good reason to be that angry, it still counts.

I still have my reservations on some things. Like for example, if the hypothetical example of "education", what counts as the trigger? Listening to someone teaching something? Hearing that someone wants to learn something? Listening about math itself? A lot of exmpales just give a broad idea.

That is also kind of my problem with the "person as button". A lot of examples just go, "Anything this person does" or "Just this person" without much further context. And would it count if they DO have a reason to hate them. Like their arch-enemy that is alwasy ruining their plans?

I might be misremembering, but wasn't there some murmuring a while ago about taking this back to TRS?

It was taken to TRS—a rename was ruled out by the enormous amount of wicks (though the trope was slightly redefined).

EDIT: Wicks not inbounds (though the latter exist in large numbers too)

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 15th 2023 at 5:25:45 AM

With this trope, I tend to err on the side of "if I'm not sure, cut". The misuse is so pervasive with this trope that I don't think it's worth trying to figure out individual cases; if it doesn't seem like it fits the criteria, it's better off being snipped (maybe taken to the discussion page or something if you still want to salvage it).

I'm really not a fan of the "too big to fix" mentality, but I guess what's been decided has been decided.

On the subject of broad triggers, I'm honestly not sure what to think. Technically, they should be valid, but they're more prone to being low-context. Too broad, and you start getting into Hair-Trigger Temper territory.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Mar 15th 2023 at 4:29:24 AM

I tend to avoid doing that since I know it is discouraged and prefered to just hide them. Although I guess it is better to cull the misuse better.

Actually, I've always thought that hiding misuse was the thing that's discouraged... I refuse to out of principal.

^^That's for ZCE, not for suspected misuse. It's best to just delete the entry if it doesn't fit the requirements.

While I'm trying to cut down the potential misuse on BerserkButton.One Piece, I think the page in general might need to be looked at since I don't want to get involved in an Edit War.

Edited by gjjones on Mar 24th 2023 at 6:57:08 AM

Necroing this thread with this example from Every Frame a Pause. None of these reactions seem disproportionate to the supposed "crime" but wanted to double check here first.

• Berserk Button:
  • Blatant Lies. Its one thing to get a fact wrong, they might still criticize the point made but depending on the mistake they may just point it out and move on, but flat out lying or manipulating something to make your point seem more valid makes all of them mad.
  • Inability to discuss a work while separating the artist from it. During the episode on Zack Snyder's Justice League, they get annoyed at chat when people bring up Joss Whedon being accused of abusive behavior or bringing up Snyder's daughter committing suicide as a reason to either hate on Justice League (2017) or praise Zack Snyder's Justice League. To them, art should be able to be separated from the creator, but they also find it annoying that people would use real world events to make their points better, especially in the case of Snyder's daughter, as it is incredibly disrespectful to his family to use the death of his daughter as some form of justification for being defensive over his films.
  • Unrelated to film criticism, one button for Rags is seeing people wear a blazer with a t-shirt. He explains it's a terrible attempt at being casual and formal at the same time. It becomes a Running Gag for him to express disgust upon seeing creators the crew is currently covering wear blazers with t-shirts.

Yeah, I'd cut that.

Not innocuous triggers. Cut.

The following example is from BerserkButton.One Piece:

• Bartolomeo, a character who first appeared in the Dressrosa arc, was introduced as a rude, Ax-Crazy Jerkass. It's bad enough if you provoke him at all, but he absolutely worships Luffy; say one bad word against him in this fanboy's hearing, and it will be the last thing you ever say. Seriously, he'll cut your tongue out!

Does this count?

If you cut irrelevant fluff, yes.

• Bartolomeo worships Luffy and immediately attacks anyone who disrespects him, going as far as cutting the offender's tongue.

Does it count though? Having Hero Worship or Undying Loyalty seems like a legitimate reason to get angry or obsessive when insults are made about the object of worship/loyalty. It's supposed to be about trivial triggers, and something that could be Hero Worship or Undying Loyalty (or other similar relationship trope) seems too serious or weighty to me.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 23rd 2023 at 11:03:41 AM

Ah, yes. As Hero Worship it's not an irrational overreacting.

Strongly disagree that the Bartolomeo one isn't an irrational overreaction. Within the context of how it's presented? It's not remotely serious or weighty. Bartolomeo is an obsessive fanboy of an individual who gets explosively angry over someone badmouthing him.

This isn't the same thing as something like Ussopp's anger over Ms. Merry Christmas mocking Luffy's supposed death against Crocodile. It's the equivalent of a guy at a bar beating you half to death with a baseball bat and lecturing you about how cool a pop star is because he overheard you shit talk said pop star in a conversation you were having with your friend.

Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jul 27th 2023 at 3:43:23 PM

Okay, that's interesting information to add. My next question is: is this rage trigger only in relation to Luffy being badmouthed? What I mean is, what's his personality otherwise? Is there a Hair-Trigger Temper involved or anything like that?

I'm sure those of you who follow the work will be able to figure out if he is or isn't. I'm just asking these questions on the basis of the Hero Worship angle, which could disqualify a character from being this trope (but if played for comedy or parody then may well still be Berserk Button).

He's normally a Jerkass who likes to annoy people because he hates pretty much everyone who isn't related to his or Luffy's crews.