Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 18, 2024
- Ukraine claims that Russian offensive will begin in July.
- To counter that, Ukraine will continue to attack targets in Russia.
- Germany arrested two saboteurs.
- Russia made gains.
Ukraine shot down a Tu-22M. So that's something.
A procrastination in of itself
I suspect that the people of Ukraine would disagree with your assessment that life under Russian occupation is something other than “suffering”.
If (and it’s a huge if which I don’t grant) all that can be done is grant the people of Ukraine a few more months or years of independence and freedom then that’s a worthwhile goal in of itself.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
If only to give as many innocents as possible more time to escape or set up a resistance movement that will help bleed Russia dry.
Anyway, they (CIA) are probably mostly talking like that because of the funding debates, so I would take this with a big grain of salt. Who knows what they really think about the probable progress of the war with or without funding, not to mention that even if we knew that, we wouldn't know how probable is that they are right. (Well, they wouldn't have used this framing if this was spring 2023, so that's something, but I personally won't be getting my hopes up.)
Edited by Smeagol17 on Apr 20th 2024 at 3:28:24 PM
https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7o2lp/tu22m3_stavropol_krai_russia/
Got the actual vid of the bomber being downed. Been told to check the tail.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 19, 2024
- Russia made gains.
- Russian hybrid operations against Moldova continue.
- Russia expands Leningrad district.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68843542
Anti-Fico (and to an extent, anti-Pellegrini) Slovaks are pitching in to help Ukraine get the needed stuff for their military.
Bratislava says that they won't intervene in it.
US House of Representatives passed the aid package for Ukraine (and Israel) [1]. Still has to go thought the senate thought.
Is there a risk of GOP senators using the filibuster against it?
i sniff ground crayons and cheeto dust
A procrastination in of itself
With 51 Democrats supporting they’d only need 9 Republicans to break a fillibuster and that seems very achievable.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
This. Cannot. Continue
Remember that the Senate passed a bipartisan Ukraine/Israel aid package months ago. While it's possible that some of the senators who backed it then are going to flip-flop to appease the "Putin' America First" crowd, the longer term limits and "only one third of the body is up for reelection in a given election cycle" dealie in the Senate give its members better resistance to electoral pressures.
I really, really hate to say this, but this whole debacle has made me rethink abolishing the Senate. It's really come across as the pillar of sanity during this legislative session. Which is more of a condemnation of the Republican House members, but still.
Current earworm: "A New Journey"
A captured AK-12 Obr. 2020 with a loaded 45-round RPK-74 large magazine and EOTECH HHS II hybrid sight.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 20, 2024
- Russia is likely to intensify their operations to exploit Ukrainian material issues before arrival of US aid.
- Ukraine continues to attack targets in Russia.
- Russia made gains.
Been seeing some posts online that some people are casting more suspicion on MTG of being a pro-Russian person being handled by Moscow. Prior to the aid in Ukraine being passed, MTG wanted to pass an amendment related to Transcarpathia in it. Basically, she "wants" Hungarian rights (language) to be protected.
https://twitter.com/RepJasmine/status/1781741644133364202
Edited by Ominae on Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:30:07 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's suspicious. No way that person could even find Transcarpathia on a map.
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Apr 21st 2024 at 7:25:14 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Protect it from what?
Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Oh you know, its the same old story about how Hungarian speaking people are supposedly being oppressed by Ukraine, forbidden to speak their language, discriminated against, etc. The same thing Russia claimed was happening to Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Donbass region leading up to the invasion. It's not true of course, and its also a very strange thing for MTG of all people to focus on or care about
Edited by Xopher001 on Apr 21st 2024 at 12:01:39 PM
Protecting some set of language speakers has long been a far-right dog whistle.
While it certainly shouldn’t be as an argument against the aid package, and the situation is far from being as bad as the Russian or pro-Russian propaganda depicts it, minority policy is definitely an area where the Ukrainian government still has quite a bit to do to achieve the European standards.
Still? At least regarding language policy, they have been walking in other direction for more than a decade.
There were some mitigations regarding that, but:
- It was always emphasised that this goes for minorities who constitute a majority in EU countries, Russians living in Ukraine will be there excepted from these.
- Even the lessening of the demands from EU-minorities happened due to pressure from quite often indeed rightist governments of certain EU countries.
Edited by LordforlornII on Apr 21st 2024 at 12:52:38 PM
But we're not in Hungary or Ukraine.
Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Well, I just meant that even excluding Russians, Ukraine was closer to the EU standard in national policy 15 years ago. (Probably excluding the Crimean Tatars, but, you know…)
Couple of interesting things in Ukraine:
https://armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/ukraine_adapts_to_supply_challenges_by_replicating_us_m113_hmmwv_and_maxxpro_vehicles.html
Ukrainian defense industry's able to make 1:1 clones of the various M113s, Maxxpro and Humvee that Ukrainian troops who did use them couldn't tell until they were told about it.
The informal designations given are Kharakternyk (Humvee), Sikach (Maxxpro) and Lys (M113).
https://armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_industry/germany_sends_50_stealth_e-bike_to_ukrainian_special_force_operator.html
Germany sent 50 E-bikes for SOF ops for the Ukrainians. They're the E-Bike Electric Multiple Units.