A thread to discuss electric vehicles and hybrid technology. No politics, please.
Technology, commercial aspects and marketing are all on-topic.
- Companies (e.g. Tesla Inc.) are only on-topic when discussing their electric vehicle products and research, not their wider activities. The exception is when those wider activities directly impact (or are impacted by) their other business areas - e.g. if electric vehicle development is cut back due to losses in another part of the business.
- Technology that's not directly related to electric vehicles (e.g. general battery research) is off-topic unless you're discussing how it might be used for vehicles.
- If we're talking about individuals here, that should only be because they've said or done something directly relevant to the topic. Specifically, posts about Tesla do not automatically need to mention Elon Musk. And Musk's views, politics and personal life are firmly off-topic unless you can somehow show that they're relevant to electric cars.
Also, posting this late, so sorry for any misspellings I might have left in there.
(Mod edited to replace original post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 4:14:39 PM
... charging is already in the camp of doesnt really take any longer then filling up a gas tank* though and they still do.
- Fast charging advertises itself at 15 minutes, once you wait through the line for the pump I doubt your getting out of a gas station in less then 10.
@Finger in the Trunk: Thats... still a pretty dumb assumption on the end of whatever engineer did that, even if you dont assume it's a saftey hazard which it is... if you just keep applying force your going to damage the machinery if the object in question is remotely durable.
....
Abort the procedure and notify the operator to check for obstructions instead.
Add a manual override if really needed because at that point it's an operator issue.
Edited by Imca on May 5th 2024 at 12:31:56 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm sure it varies a lot from area to area, but I haven't waited in line for a gas pump in many years.
That kind of time for gas is really dependent on where you live. The idea of hitting 10 minutes to get gas, let alone going over, is a freakishly slow stop that hasn't happened for me in years. Even the busiest time of day tends to mean picking a different pump other than the closest to the entrance, not actually waiting to get to a pump.
I... see.
That's "I decided to get gas at 6am" back when I actualy had a petrol powered vehicle...
Any thing 10am and after was just "I am not getting petrol today"
It's also worth mentioning that comparing a 10 minute wait to 10 minute charge time isn't an equivalent comparison.
Everyone ahead of you will also have to charge for 10 minutes, so if there's just 2 people ahead of you for each available charger that's a 30 minute stop, not a 10 minute stop.
That's why Sodium-Ion batteries, if they can get the energy density up to viable EV ranges, would be a big deal in this regard. Charging would take the same amount of time as filling up a gas tank so in places where there is a line it will move about as quickly as a petrol station.
The trick is the way chargers are set up there really isn't any one ahead of you for them.
If there are 5 changes and 10 vehicles wanting to charge at the same time, 5 vehicles are going to have to wait no matter how anything is set up.
It sounds like you are in an area that has fewer petrol stations and more chargers than what the current market needs, which isn't a universal situation and I suspect is highly atypical globally.
A procrastination in of itself
Though it’s a simple enough supply and demand problem that the market should be able to adapt. If charging becomes as fast as fuelling a car then even if you have to charge with the frequency of older less fuel-efficient cars, I think consumers will still switch.
I believe that a noted negative impact of cars become more fuel efficient is that people doing distance driving stop less (as they don’t need to refuel) and then end up pushing the limits of human focus endurance because they’re trying to keep up with the fuel endurance of modern cars, that results in more dangerous driving.
UK government guidance is to take a 15 minute break after 2 hours of driving, so if less energy-efficient cars starts to incentivise that it’d be a win for road safety.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lost in Space
The Telegraph (via Yahoo! News): Activists storm Tesla gigafactory in protest over expansion plans
Several hundred self-declared anti-capitalist protesters wearing masks and blue baseball caps broke through a perimeter fence at Tesla's Gigafactory in Grünheide, Germany today, but were stopped by police before gaining access to the facility proper. Employees had been given advance warning to stay home in anticipation of the attack, which came on a public holiday.
These eco-terrorists want to end all car production and are attempting to halt a planned expansion of the factory. A similar group committed an arson attack in March that cut the factory's electricity supply for over a week.
They do know that there's a coal mine a few miles away that they could be going after, don't they?
Edited by Fighteer on May 10th 2024 at 9:41:57 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
I am not familiar enough with German domestic politics to say, but it sure gives the impression that someone is organizing things behind the scenes.
Lost in Space
Oh, they absolutely are. Germany, the heart of Europe's industrial capitalism, is also the heart of its industrial anti-capitalism. Ironic, no?
I don't see them attacking Volkswagen plants, either, but maybe they have and it didn't make international news.
Edited by Fighteer on May 10th 2024 at 5:24:44 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Don't really see the irony - seems perfectly reasonable that the people who get the closest look at industrial capitalism might not like what they see.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
A procrastination in of itself
The protesters seem to all be general anti-capitalists (potentially mainly anti-Musk more than anything), so I’m not sure why they’re being referred to as “eco-terrorists”. Eco-terrorism would be attacking an oil refinery or a mine.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Eh, the German Green movement is... weird. They're actually pro-coal.
Oh, bother.
A consequence of being anti nuclear I guess.
Edited by M84 on May 10th 2024 at 8:47:25 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
A procrastination in of itself
Most Green movements are anti-nuclear (refusing to take the win of having made nuclear loads safer), the German Green movement take it to an entire new level and are actually pro fossil-fuels.
I’d argue that the German Green movement may not actually qualify as environmentalists, they seem to be more about being anti-science then pro-environment.
Edited by Silasw on May 10th 2024 at 1:54:16 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lost in Space
We’ve been over the definition of terrorism before and this is clearly in that realm.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
A procrastination in of itself
Did you miss most of my post? I wasn’t disputing the acts being terrorism, I was disputing them having an eco motive as opposed to an anti-capitalist motive.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Lost in Space
Wasn't replying to you. Mobile is annoying.
And yeah, they aren't motivated by environmentalism or ecology.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Finaly saw a cybertruck in the wild while running erands today, it was a vastly different experiance then I expected.
I expected the low poly shape would be the aesthetics low point, in reality if the truck was about 20% smaller I could see the shape actualy working.
No what really made me question "is this thing real" was the polished steel exterior, the vehicle cant have been more then 5 months old since they didnt make them back then and in reality was probaly much newer since I do run into same vehicles often enough I dont suspect it's been driving unseen for half a year.
Either way the exterior was already stained with handprints, and had no sheen left on it... if any one here has ever had a stainless steel fridge... what they look like after a year or so is what the truck looked like.
Even if you write that off as on the owner for not cleaning it enough I would counter that's a lot of extra care needed over a baseline car still, mine can go a year and it still looks passable.
And its.. just... why? This would have been easily solved with a nice coat of paint.
Any way much less exciting and more just a car then I was expecting.
Edited by Imca on May 12th 2024 at 12:39:48 AM
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Oh yeah, we got a steel fridge and immediately regretted it when a fridge magnet didn't stick to it and ended up scratching the surface. Also the fire extinguisher, in the process of putting it on top, lightly tapped the door and left a noticeable tiny dent.
The interior is perfect, but the exterior looks horrible now that we've had it a few years.
Question: what makes that protest a terrorist attack?
"Yup. That tasted purple."
The fact that violence was used. Best not to question why people are suddenly such sticklers for dictionary definitions when it's Tesla factories getting terrorised.
OK. What was the violence? Because so far all I'm seeing reading the news about this is that they're terrorists because Elon said so.
"Yup. That tasted purple."
Did a bit more reading on Sodium-Ion batteries.
It looks like the ones in actual production probably sit at about 80 Wh/kg. That's much lower than the 200-300 Wh/Kg modern Lithium Ion batteries typically have.
However expiramental Sodium batteries are getting close to that density so it's probably not a theoretical limit. Though still well off from expected energy densities of solid state batteries at 500 Wh/kg.
However because Sodium-Ion batteries charge much faster it's not as important for them to have exceedingly high ranges in an EV. If charging doesn't take much longer than filling up a gas tank than consumers won't demand very long ranges to compensate for said charging times as long as charger availability is there.