British Politics Thread

I’ve not seen that one yet, care to link to his statments?

What I’ve seen so far on hospital placements is for trans people receiving medical care that would have them on a sex-specific ward to instead be placed in individual rooms. With Stressing rather than Starmer being the one to back it (though Starmer ultimately has responsibility for Stressing’s positions).

Now that’s obviously a policy that puts the burden in the wrong place (if someone feels they need to not have any trans people around them then they can be moved to an individual room) and may well put trans people at risk of violence. But it’s not the same as calling for trans women to be placed with men.

I’ve no idea of the calling for misgendering thing, so I’ll have to be guided by your sources on that one.

OK, and where are those special private rooms going to come from? Because there's usually only a couple on each ward and they're prioritised for patients who need to be isolated for infection control reasons.

He's also literally saying Rosie Duffield is right.

Edited by Deadbeatloser22 on May 6th 2024 at 9:39:28 AM

I’m not sure why you seem to think I’m defending the policy, I’ve literally been pointing out the flaws with it in the LGBTQ+ Rights in the U.K. Thread.

The Labour Party under Starmer is accepting of transphobia and he’s unwilling to push back on it. If we circle back to the Abbott discussion we can actually see a clear example of that. Abbott denying the history of racism against Irish people gets her (rightly) suspended from the party, while Rowling and such denying that trans people were targeted during the Holocaust gets nothing done to them. The double standard on how he responds to bigotry is both insane and blatant.

Edited by Silasw on May 6th 2024 at 1:56:05 PM

I'm still unsure if Starmer's behavior there is genuine transphobia, cynically pandering to the TERF wing of his party, or just legitimately falling for the Tory/TERF narrative that they're 'common sense biological realists' or whatever (I do believe there's a distinction between that and actual transphobes as I've seen people otherwise accepting of trans people fall into that trap - bothsides-ism definitely plays into it).

As for Rowling, I'm still convinced that part of her skating by without consequences is due to her whole 'National Treasure' status, and by extension anyone who supports her views. Hell, I'd wager if she were somehow discredited in a major and very public way, the entire TERF movement could very well collapse overnight. It's a pipe dream, but still. :V

Edited by PresidentStalkeyes on May 6th 2024 at 12:24:24 PM

I don’t think he particularly wants to have the discussions. He made a point even during the leadership election of saying that press questions on trans issues are a cynical attempt to divide people and make political hay. Most of the quotes of him on trans issues are cut to remove the bit where he says the British people mainly care about wider economic issues and that the conversation is a culture war distraction.

Edited by Silasw on May 6th 2024 at 1:06:09 PM

And that's another Tory MP jumped ship to Labour. Natalie Elphick.

fleeing a sinking ship as they say

Meanwhile, the homophobe (Kate Forbes) is now Deputy FM, so I don't assume Swinney's going to do much to improve the SNP's positions on things.

Note that Natalie Elphick is now not standing at the next election, Labour already have a candidate for Dover and they’re sticking with said candidate.

Edited by Silasw on May 8th 2024 at 9:43:06 AM

So…when did David Cameron become the Foreign Secretary? Because I did not know that until I saw an article a couple of days ago about his statements on Ukraine.

He was a Tory Prime Minister in the 2000s, correct?

(Oh, and what happened to your sig and title, Silasw?)

13 November 2023 in a reshuffle. He's not an MP so they had to make him a Lord so he could be in government.

Yes he was PM up until he called the Brexit referendum, argued for remain and lost. Then he resigned and Theresa May took over and that was three prime ministers ago.

Edited by dcutter2 on May 8th 2024 at 6:05:47 PM

About 6 months ago. He's been in the job a while.

And yes, saw that about Forbes. Pragmatically I get why it's happened but she's an awful bigot who leads a faction of awful bigots.

Despite my long standing support and voting history for the SNP I'm actually a green party member, and I'll be voting them exclusively going forward I think.

Ah, thanks.

Can I ask WHY he’s Foreign Secretary now? What made him a appealing choice last year over others?

They're running out of people with any level of diplomatic experience who haven't exited the government recently? Honestly, hard to tell what they were thinking.

The remaining Tory MP’s willing to serve in the Cabinet are very poorly skilled, Cameron was a way to fill a critical role with someone that has passable levels of competency. He replaced Cleverly when he moved to become Home Secretary after Braverman quit/was fired.

Not sure, might have been due to me having to re-validate my email. Should be fixed now.

Your sig and title are back now, Si.

Has Cameron been “passably competent” since he got the job?

You mean Lord David Cameron

So, currently it looks like a sweep for Labour, right?

Sorry, I’m American. The only lord I acknowledge is the Lord of Majesty and Generosity. One of Allah’s 99 names.

From recent articles I’ve seen, it’s at very least a nonstop parade of the Tories getting sweeped. It’s kinda funny, the parties in 2016 America and Britain, that seemed dominant last decade, have been, as the younguns say, holding onto that L with as though it was their child.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 8th 2024 at 11:24:55 AM

I can’t think of any prominent mistakes he’s made. He’s maintained our support for Ukraine, he’s at least made noises around wanting a peaceful resolution to the Israel/Gaza conflict, he’s called out elements of the US Republican Party who are pro-Russia. I’d say that’s passable.

You can’t really get a more detailed evaluation of a minister’s competency unless they do something big or you can get a direct line into the staff of their department who they impact.

Current polling has Labour far ahead, far enough ahead that it kinds breaks most prediction models. Genrally we only get national polling but because elections are fought constituency by constituency there will always be a disconnect there. Right now seat prediction models have that disconnect favouring Labour because they apply the national polling change roughly equally and that kicks the Tories into second place in a lot of seats. But that might not be how votes actually get cast even if polls are right.

We also still have an entire election campaign to happen first. Sunak is expected to be a very bad campaigner, but the Tories have recently increased the amount that can be spent during an election and have strong ties to the media, so things could shift in any direction.

Edited by Silasw on May 8th 2024 at 7:26:48 PM

The Conservatives are losing hard right now because they've been in power for far too long and all their fuck ups and scandals have accumulated together long enough for people to actually remember,they've also been through several prime ministers,which is something of a record.

I think it’s not just that, I think the public have finally lost trust in them. By that I don’t mean trust that their ideas are correct or trust that they will do the right thing or what’s best for the nation, but trust in that they’ll at least try and do what they promise.

Everyone says politicians are liars and can’t be trusted, but there’s always an implicit level of trust that people have when the vote for a party, there’s a vague trust that the party is likely to at least try the main things they promised.

That’s now gone for the Conservatives. Cameron promised to get the nation’s house in order so we so we’d be prepared for the next disaster, but COVID/Ukraine showed that Austerity did nothing to enable us to survive an economic crash. Cameron/May/Boris/Truss/Sunak all promised to bring down immigration but it’s just kept going up. Boris promised more hospitals and schools but they’ve never emerged. May/Boris/Truss/Sunak all promised to punish criminals harder and lock them up for longer, but the prisons and court services are visibly broken. The press have been trying to hide reality from the public for years but it’s all become to self-evident.

So the Conservatives now aren’t just loosing voters who view right-wing political ideas as incorrect, they’re also loosing voters who believe in traditional right-wing political ideas (low immigration, law and order, low government spending, etc…) but have realised they’ll never get them from the Conservative Party, that’s why said voters are turning to Farage/Reform.

For a long time the Tory party have campaigned as small c conservatives, but they’ve spent the last 14 years governing as vulture capitalists. The only party policy they’ve actually done is welfare for the home-owning elderly, who are dwindling in numbers and not being replaced (the elderly who don’t own their home aren’t going to vote Tory).

The disconnect between what gets campaigned in and what happens in government I’ve highlighted above, that by the way is why people are seeing so many similarities between what Starmer is promising now and what Cameron promised in 2010. Cameron promised measured-governance, he delivered a “burn the state” ideology. Starmer is promising measured-governance and may actually deliver it.

Edited by Silasw on May 8th 2024 at 9:36:53 AM

God, if Farage ever becomes a genuine political powerhouse. Ugh. I don't think I can cope.

I’ve seen discussions around him potentially looking to become leader of the Conservative Party.

He’s been a political powerhouse for years though, his decision to stand his candidates down in 2019 is why Boris was able to win. He, alongside the press, is why Brexit became such a big political issue that threatened Cameron to the point we got the Brexit vote in the first place.

Yes and No. He's never been in any position of power on paper. But yeah he's wielded a kind of soft power for years. UKIP never got many actual elected officials (well ME Ps I think was the one place they had success) but they created enough noise and siphoned enough votes for the Tories to promise the Referendum

Edited by dcutter2 on May 8th 2024 at 11:28:16 AM