Wheel of Time

@MisterTambourineMan:

Sure, but so are "people spoken to IRL".

It is fair to note that this thread hasn't seen much activity, and thus is a particularly small sample, however!

But conversely, if people from the forums were watching it and finding themselves confused, I'd expect them to enter the thread and ask questions.

That said, if you mean that to suggest that the show is bad, as shown by poor response here... I've seen some excellent works get next to no response on the forums, as I recall. Sometimes a work doesn't resonate with a specific group.

I mean, the broader pattern (which seems like an apt turn of phrase here ;) ) might simply be that it's a big world with lots of stuff as-yet only hinted.

Remind me, please: Has Lan trained Rand in this continuity, at this point?

I recall that he was trained by the fellow in the asylum—but that guy wasn't, I think, a Borderlander.

As such, Lan may be trained for a different weapon.

Plus: Not all thrusts need to be half-sworded. I gather that it's an "accuracy and power" move.

I'm too tired right now to want to argue everything, so I'm just going to register broad disagreement here; in some cases with the points themselves, but for many of them with the points being problematic.

This is one exception: it's actually a fair point.

I actually like the show's version Mat. (I think Season 2's take more than Season 1's.)

[edit] Actually, you know what? Let's drop the argument, shall we? It's not worth the stress—at least speaking for myself. I want to come here to talk about a show that I very much like, not to attempt to defend it at every turn.

I've registered my thoughts and feelings; my arguments in the show's favour. I've read your thoughts against the show. Perhaps let's let it be done.

Now, naturally, as I'm the one calling for a halt to the argument, I won't attempt to have the last word, too: let me suggest that we drop this after your next post. [/edit]

~

@VampireBuddha:

Heh, don't worry—I'm simply bad with names. Even more-prominent ones!

I generally remember the character far better than their name.

Ah, I'm really glad that you so enjoyed it! :D

Honestly, I was worried that you might have been overhyped—but glad to be wrong in that! ^_^

You know, one day I want to try this American cornbread stuff. It sounds tasty, at least.

Hmm... I didn't get this feeling myself. I felt like Ishamael had time.

While I can't speak with authority, I have seen it said that half-swording can and has been done with a curved sword, and with a katana specifically.

Still, let me note that this was not by a source that I know well enough to swear by, so take with a grain of salt.

True, but I still hold that training for combat against armoured opponents could lead one to use a technique for such even against unarmoured opponents.

This is a fair point!

I would hazard a guess that he might have wanted specifically to strike at the heart. Maybe an intuition inspired by Lanfear's resilience, and the fact that destruction of the heart is a classic way to kill that which refuses to die?

Now I'm trying to remember whether anyone learns to fly in the books... :P

[[/quoteblock]]I guess Faile has simply been adapted out, which considering her reputation in the fandom will probably be viewed as an improvement.[[/quoteblock]]

I would be sad if so, because I remember liking her!

I think that there was rumour of her being cast—but nothing solid, I fear. :/

This, I will confess, is a concern! I suppose that we'll have to wait and see...

(... I really hope that the Foxes and Snakes remain included, as I'm particularly enthused to see the show's take on them...)

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 1st 2024 at 12:37:45 PM

Honestly, I'm getting tired, too.

I will also note that you may be the first person I've seen who said that they liked Faile.

And unfortunately, I also doubt we'll get the Snakes and Foxes.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 2nd 2024 at 7:07:34 AM

Showrunner Rafe Judkins discusses Season 3 in an interview, reveals that the opening scene of Season 3 will be a bunch of middle-aged women fighting with each other.

Are they trying to market the show as camp?

Also, there's this paragraph at the end:

Rand is never mentioned by name, and his actor, Josha Stradowski is never mentioned at all. The first part is kinda funny, in a certain way, but the latter seems a bit unfair.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 2nd 2024 at 6:31:45 AM

Wow! You know, I went in expecting this show to be mid because one, it's made by Amazon, and two, it's not even the fantasy series they're pouring the largest amount of cash into (that would be the only-slightly-better-by-comparison Rings of Power). But I didn't expect so much of it to revolve around, for instance, people brunching at wineries and constantly talking about their throuple relationship.

This show wants to be Sex and the City more than it wants to be Wheel of Time.

I mean, I wouldn't go that far. But there's been some completely baffling creative decisions made. Like you said, there was this bizarrely campy undertone throughout Season 2, particularly where Lanfear was concerned. Honestly, I can't see this show lasting much longer, let alone fully adapting the novels.

Their current plan is to skip book 3 and jump straight into the Shadow Rising, but I'm not sure what they're going to actually take from that. I doubt Rand is going to become Car'a'Carn, since it really doesn't look like the show is setting him up to be any kind of leader, and apparently Mat is going to Tanchico instead of the Aiel Waste.

I can believe that!

It wouldn't be the first time that I've liked a character that has been broadly disliked.

I don't know—that seems to me like an unlikely thing to omit.

I reaaally doubt that they're going to skip over that!

(But then remember: we have rather different interpretations of what they seem to be doing with Rand.)

That... sounds about right? :P

(I'd guess that they're Aes Sedai.)

I mean, that may be the publication's doing.

IMDB has Rand pretty high up, at least.

Perhaps more saliently, the actual Amazon press-page for season two (I didn't find one for season three) lists Josha Stradowski in position three.

So maybe let's not read too much into the listing given by one publication? :P

Wait, where was it said that they were planning to skip book three?

I thought that someone said that they were planning on having elements from both of books three and four in the next season, not skipping a book.

[[/quoteblock]]... that would be the only-slightly-better-by-comparison Rings of Power ...[[/quoteblock]]

Amusingly, Rings of Power season two is one of the few upcoming seasons that I'm actually more excited about than season three of Wheel of Time. I thoroughly enjoyed Rings of Power! ^_^

~

In other—to me happier—news, I just spotted a tweet on the Wheel of Time Twitter account that they've finished filming season three! ^_^

So yeah, I'm definitely excited to see where the new season goes!

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 6th 2024 at 10:58:41 AM

Season 2 ditched about 92% of The Great Hunt's plot and about 99% of The Dragon Reborn. I don't think it's particularly outlandish to assume a particular scene would be skipped, when there's already a strong precedent. Moreover, the main effect of going to Finnland was Mat getting the memories, medallion, and ashan'darai. He already has two of those in the show, so I think it's more likely they'll have him get the medallion in some other way. Or just not have him get the medallion at all.

You missed the point I was trying to make. To reiterate: It's funny that the article basically left out Rand, since that's how the show's writers have treated him, but it seemed unfair to not name Stradowski. I get that this article wasn't written by someone at Amazon, that doesn't mean I can't comment on it.

The Dragon Reborn is a tricky book to adapt, since it consists of everyone chasing after Rand, while Rand himself is only on-page at the end of a few chapters and for some of the last chapter.

I could actually see them adapting the important parts of The Dragon Reborn as the last episode of season 3. Rand and friends go into the Three-Fold Land, Rand is confirmed as Car'a'carn, and he Lanfear possibly binds Asmodean to teach him channeling. Then he brings a small Aiel strikeforce to the Stone of Tear, pulls out Callandor, and confirms once again that he is indeed the Dragon Reborn.

Of course the writers apparently want to throw in The Fires of Heaven as well for some reason. We'll have to wait and see how they pull that off.

It's not impossible they'll have the Stone of Tear in Season 3, but I'm not counting on it.

I would note the massive rewrites you would need to give Rand something resembling his book 4 plot without having proved himself He Who Comes With The Dawn, but that just feels redundant.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 7th 2024 at 12:14:47 PM

I would argue that it's not unfair to guess that it might be—but a bit of a reach to assume that it will be.

This much is fair, however.

Well, we'll see! As far as I'm concerned there's still cause to think that the Snakes and Foxes might yet be included!

Okay, fair.

But to be fair on my side, too, I didn't say that you couldn't comment on it. I just commented on the validity of drawing the conclusion that I thought that you were making.

\*facepalm*

Okay, first, I don't agree. We saw plenty of Rand this season.

But second... Do you really have to look for every opportunity to snipe at the show?

It's getting really frustrating. To the point that I'm considering dropping this thread—which would sadden me, as I really really like this show, and would like to have somewhere to discuss it with others.

Whether this thread is worth your time or not is your decision.

If you're looking for other places to discuss this show, you might want to try the Subreddit r/Wo T Show. There are people there close to your wavelength, and I think it's more active in general.

If you wish to keep engaging with this thread, here's a small question that may lead to a bigger question: do the Forsaken ever mention the Dark One in the show? I can't remember any instances off the top of my head, but my memory is hardly encyclopedic.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 9th 2024 at 2:19:18 PM

To the former, the thread was perfectly fine previously.

To the latter, I do appreciate the suggestion, but I'm not on Reddit.

[edit]
Sorry, I forgot to refresh before replying, and so missed your addendum!

Okay, that's an interesting question... and I don't remember offhand.

I know that Moiraine did—but I'm not sure of whether the Forsaken did.

But then, we've only seen three of them so far, I think—one of whom (at least in the books) thought that he was the Dark One...

(And another of whom was distracted by her obsess- erm, One True Love.)

We might get more on their dark master now that more are slipping out of the Shadowy woodwork...

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 9th 2024 at 9:47:06 PM

Admittedly, the main thing I'm thinking of right now is, what if the Dark One isn't real in the show? People in the Third Age definitely believe he is, but it's that belief accurate? Or is there something like the True Power that exists, but without being tied to any intelligence?

It's one of several questions I've mulled over regarding the show's history and cosmology.

(I'm not trying to be snide; what we've seen of the Age of Legend implies the backstory is very different

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on May 9th 2024 at 3:12:09 AM

It's an interesting question—I could see that being a thing!

That said, in the interim I did a bit more digging. If the Wheel of Time fan-wiki is to be believed (not an ideal source, but I didn't find a better one in a quick search), then Ishamael, at least, has referenced the Dark One.

(Not by that name, of course—as I was reminded, those who follow the Shadow don't call him by that name.)

To quote them in quoting the show, emphasis mine:

Of course, that "the Great Lord" only speaks to Ishamael doesn't exactly speak highly to the Dark One's reality...

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 9th 2024 at 10:12:32 AM

So, let me ask: What do people here hope to see in Season 3? Whether a probable hope or a distant one, what would you like?

For myself, I've already said that I want to see the Foxes and Snakes.

Now, argument has been made—and not unfairly, I think—that they might be skipped. And if so, then so it goes.

But still, I hope. ^_^

Otherwise, I'm kinda hoping to see more of the Age of Legends.

Season 1 showed us one brief-but-cool glimpse of that time of high technology and great magic. Season 2, however, had nothing (that I caught).

It's a long shot, perhaps, but I'd like to see a few more flash -backs/-forwards to that Age. ^_^

I feel like Cold Open of the last episode of each season is going to be set in the AOL. I could well be wrong, but I expect there will be more.

I want to see Egwene and Perrin exploring Tel'aran'rhiod and getting to grips with it. That's a big part of The Shadow Rising, so hopefully it won't be excised.

Oh, and I agree on the Snakes and Foxes.