YouTube

sub models became popular as a probable consequence of the 2006 financial crisis and finace-bros realizing you could get a lot more money with what is effectively an exaggeration of down payments over getting lump sums after Netflix and Spotify proved popular.

And yet all these channels keep telling me I should subscribe. I don't have to, but it sure feels increasingly like being told I should.

You're confusing "subscription" with "membership". Subscribing just means you get their videos in your feed, and it gives them an SEO boost. It's one of the primary mechanisms by which channels increase their reach on the platform. The others are liking the videos and interacting (via comments).

Nobody's making you do it if you don't want to.

Edited by Fighteer on May 5th 2024 at 12:17:19 PM

The way the algorithm works makes creators desperate to get as many people onboard with their community as possible, even if it makes them look extremely patronizing. Do people really need a reminder to subscribe to things they like?

I subscribe to channels in which I know I'll be watching the vast majority of their content, and doesn't violate a lot of the standards I have for channels that I subscribe to. Having that interaction reminder is part of that negative score for me personally.

In fact, I've heard that reminding people to "like, comment, and subscribe" is proven to increase engagement.

Well, for me, it has the opposite effect. I'll subscribe and comment when I have genuine interest in the channel's work and comment if I have something to say. And I tend to think spamming likes on everything I watch devalues that action.

Sometimes I think the newer generations' attention spans really are getting that smaller and smaller. I'm convinced that interaction reminder is merely a product of that algorithm that puts it higher up the list despite being nothing more than video filler.

Edited by RainingMetal on May 5th 2024 at 1:38:55 PM

So, creators should choose not to try to increase their engagement via proven methods because a certain subset of viewers will get all contrarian about it? I hope you realize that this puts them in a no-win situation.

We're getting dangerously close to saying that content creators shouldn't try to earn income from their work because it's personally inconvenient to some people.

I rarely like most videos cause I use my likes list as my music playlist mostly.

You have to bear in mind that for a lot of Youtubers, You Tube is their career, or at least a source of income. So if telling people to like and subscribe gets even a few people to like and subscribe, then that still increases engagement, then likely ad revenue, which is income. Even if it's just a small amount, money is money.

Of all the ways that Youtubers, and people of any career really, can use underhanded tricks and morally questionable actions to try and increase their income, a few seconds in a video asking people to like and subscribe seems pretty tame.

Sorry if that came across as antagonistic. I definitely get why you find it annoying, I do to, but it's a minor inconvenience for us that can help a creator, sometimes to fairly large degrees.

Edited by king15 on May 5th 2024 at 5:43:21 PM

It feels like opening the floodgates to more and more sleaze at the cost of quality and convenience. I don't want to imagine the next evolutionary steps into channel soliciting. Perhaps the channels will begin to insult the viewers' intelligence for not doing as they ask (and I have seen this in action before).

This is another reason why I donate to certain channels directly, because they don't do these sorts of things. I greatly admire their restraint.

It feels unfair to judge Youtube channels on what they're doing could lead to. At the moment at least, most Youtubers just remind you to like and subscribe, an annoyance yes, but a few seconds at most of a video that you can easily skip and that can help them.

Edited by king15 on May 5th 2024 at 5:48:46 PM

At this point, I consider asking the audience to like and subscribe to be a...formality of sorts, kind of like saying "hello", asking "how are you?", or "goodbye".

I never remember to like videos anyway. I guess it's just not a habit. But why can't my view be counted as a like? I mean, if I watched the entire thing, then presumably I liked it. That's certainly how it works for TV ratings.

The Algorithm considers all forms of interaction when determining how to recommend videos. Watches count, likes count more, comments and subscriptions count substantially more. Length and watch time count too. It's all weighted and balanced, and obviously channels will try to optimize interactions to promote themselves. That's how the game is played.

Edited by Fighteer on May 5th 2024 at 2:02:00 PM

I tend to give self-promotions such as for membership signups/patreon links a pass, as those tend to actually provide important information, namely that the channel has such a thing and where to go for it (as well as providing links in the description). I've signed up for a few myself to channels that meet my approval.

That's what worries me. We'll normalize more and more of this stuff until videos become nothing more than the usual "Like and subscribe, show channel viewer statistics, sponsorship sections" and the actual meat and potatoes of a video is a second long. Now obviously that's a bit of a crazy nightmare, but I dread to see what comes next.

Well, for likes it does help to legitimize the quality of a video, compared to dislikes, which tend to be used in abundance for fraudulent clickbait, unhelpful videos, hot takes, or political/opinionated contrarianism in some cases.

I suppose my hatred for this trope comes for my general disapproval for solicitation. Though I admit I do need to remember that favors are a two-way street from time to time. I do think that integrating this seamlessly into an introduction without being its own segment isn't nearly as much of an annoyance. I did see one video essay of Super Paper Mario where you get to make the Pixl Cudge shout out whatever word you tell him to say (so long as it met a certain amount of characters total). Said video essay went with the word "SUBSCRIB". That was Actually Pretty Funny, and the essay didn't come to a screeching halt to do it.

Edited by RainingMetal on May 5th 2024 at 2:08:16 PM

"That's what worries me. We'll normalize more and more of this stuff until videos become nothing more than the usual "Like and subscribe, show channel viewer statistics, sponsorship sections" and the actual meat and potatoes of a video is a second long. Now obviously that's a bit of a crazy nightmare, but I dread to see what comes next."

I definitely get that worry, but it's unfair to judge what YouTubers are currently doing with what they might do in the future. At the moment, it is a few seconds that might help the You Tuber build up a following and subsequently help their career. If their content is good, it would be a waste to be put off by such a small part of the video.

Edited by king15 on May 5th 2024 at 6:18:36 PM

...so when they do it in the future, is it okay to judge them.

The last time I checked, characters who pre-judge others are usually considered villains.

That's pretty much exactly it. Google takes a 30% cut of memberships, Super Chats, etc., while Patreon only takes 5-12% depending on plan. But it's more convenient to use YouTube's features, so...

Edited by Fighteer on May 5th 2024 at 5:26:52 AM

I guess Youtube wanted creators to dissuade from patreon.

(2) Tell that to Madam Web and Star Wars.

I mean, if it gets to a point in the future where the majority of a video is spent using sponsorships and asking for subscriptions and selling merch (and to be fair there are a few now which do that) then I think it's ok to criticise that (though maybe at that point it would be more on You Tube itself for arguably forcing creators into that position), but I don't think it's fair to criticise Youtubers spending a few seconds to ask for subscriptions just because of what it might snowball into.

"I suppose my hatred for this trope comes for my general disapproval for solicitation."

Definitely fair enough, I just think it's a bit harsh to judge an entire video/You Tuber off a few seconds of their video asking for subscriptions/likes.

Fair enough. I might disagree with your opinion, but do appreciate the way you're going about expressing it.

Edited by king15 on May 5th 2024 at 10:23:59 AM

It's why I'm channeling my negative emotions into positive energy; I'm pledging directly to Youtubers who don't do this (and other things) to reward them for their restraint. That's a channel that I'm happy to subscribe to and comment on. Even then, I understand there are worse offenses that a Youtuber can make, so the purple section of interaction reminders is something I can turn the other cheek for.

Heck, I actually was a subscriber to Youtube Premium because I know that I can't actually cover all my bases on this front, and the mobile compatibility with the adblocker while keeping the app minimized was a nice convenience while it lasted. I just wish the higher-ups didn't actively try to punish third-party blockers, that was when they crossed the line (again). If Premium incorporated sponsorblock or allowed creators to place said sections separately from the video to enable some kind of official blocker for those sections, I'd jump on the Premium wagon again, even with the price hike.

Edited by RainingMetal on May 5th 2024 at 6:29:56 AM

I'd like to take this time to update my perception of how the lifespan of Youtube channels and careers usually go

• 1) start new youtube channel being extremely friendly, humble, and attention-seeking ^note doing light topics, never mention any kind of scandal or attacking any other Youtuber or group, throwing up videos consistently so you won't be buried by the algorithm
• 2) ask everyone to like/subscribe and, once you're big enough, give your audience a nickname that you use in every video
• 3) start a second channel, or open a social media account to let all of your fans interact with you on Twitter/Twitch/Discord
• 4) do silly or drunk livestreams to make yourself relatable, manipulate your audience into seeing you as just some person rather than someone aggressively jockeying for recognition and views
• 5) collaborate with a bigger Youtuber on a video to promote your channel
• 6) announce when you've hit landmark 1,000/10,000/100,000 subscriber counts and promise a special appreciation video or livestream where you make emotional appeals about how important each person is to you and how thankful you are for your moderate success
• 7) throw in some alternate donation methods (buy me a coffee, patreon, fansly) to ensure faster and more consistent content
• 8) hire a team to start pumping out content at unhealthy rates because the reason you started a Youtube channel in the first place was so you didn't have to meet deadlines for a corporate overlord
• 9) measure your subscriber count against your willingness to share your controversial political opinions and thoughts on abortion
• 10) respond to criticisms of your content, prune your audience, or talk about how unfair Youtube policies are
• 11) shut down or limit socials because all that attention you needed to grow is now toxic to your mental health
• 12) downsize the team you hired because putting out new content each week with a team of 3-5 people was your dumbest idea since playing three rounds beer pong with your buddies in college
• 13) finally realize how messed up and uncaring Youtube is and start trying to subtly guide your audience to your other side hustles if you haven't already - ^note your new book, a video game you're working on, a voice-acting career you've dipped your toes into, Twitch, Nebula, etc)
• 14) start making lengthier, 1-3 hour content to justify the longer wait periods between content releases and coast on your brand recognition until the heat death of the universe or until Youtube gets fined/banned by the US government whichever comes first

Some special variations include:

• threaten to delete your channel if your numbers aren't going up enough then go april fools and promise to not delete your channel but change its format somehow (give the video a title like THE END or THIS IT IT or WE NEED TO TALK or I'M DELETING MY CHANNEL with you doing a serious face)
• sell your channel to a larger entity who most likely will ruin your creative output and drag your channel through the mud (if not outright put you in the hospital)
• turn out to be part of a massive scandal and disappear from the internet, or at least until you get mentioned in another Youtuber's essays about 'Youtubers gone bad', or until somebody on 4chan or Kiwifarms gets bored
• do something stupid and immoral but retain your subscriber count anyway because your flat earth/antivaxxer/M-She-U homies will always have your back
• give up and do onlyfans instead because that is honestly an easier, more respectable, honest, and profitable career than being a successful Youtuber

Edited by FOFD on May 5th 2024 at 7:54:13 AM

I dunno, Only Fans is the hot new thing now, but that has its own set of unhealthy incentives and practices, some not all that dissimilar from Youtube.

Yeah but Only Fans is usually associated with people checking the creator's contents.