Non-fiction works cleanup

This thread exists to help maintain the wiki's non-fiction works pages (and their subpages). Our starting point is the Real Life Troping policy, which makes this point, in bold:

Things that happen in real life are not tropes.

Reality TV is a special case and has its own cleanup thread.

Articles on Non-Fiction works are allowed on the wiki, but they must describe other things: the staged performance (e.g. a Crime Reconstruction), the setting, artistic elements, or some sort of commentary on other works.

If a work doesn't have enough of that content to lift it beyond a stub, it may be cut.

The What Qualifies as a Work? thread exists to discuss policy on what's actually considered a tropeable work.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 28th 2023 at 5:24:10 PM

I will note that, like I said in the ATT, the Web Video cleanup covers YouTubers.

I didn't know it existed. Oops.

Anyway, I just scrubbed all the Tiny-Headed Behemoth and Long Neck entries from Prehistoric Planet because they have no narrative significance there.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Jan 31st 2023 at 11:36:00 AM

Jimmy Savile: A British Horror Story is a documentary about the titular creator and the abuse he managed to conceal for decades.

It looks like it needs a thorough review, including removal of NRLEP tropes

So, I am going to repeat my question from the ROEJ thread, and ask where does the documentary end and real life begin? I know that we are allowed to trope documentaries with the caveat that that is how the documentary portrays them, but looking through this page it only seems to be troping Jimmy Savile the person. For instance this:

• Faux Affably Evil: Savile was easily recognized by his jovial, chatty behavior and his charisma played a major part in his fame but it's clear that it's all a performance to hide his unpleasant nature. Notably, he maintained the performance even on occasions where normal people would have been more serious; Savile can even be heard firing off his usual bluster and bombast in a police interview of all places.

Likewise, almost none of the tropes make any reference to how the documentary portrays him either.

I would like to add that the Fridge Horror page for this work seems, according to the note at the top, to have been made explicitly as a place to write Nightmare Fuel entries about things that aren't mentioned in the documentary, i.e. real life. Frankly, given the nature of this documentary I find it unlikely there is a single valid "fridge horror" entry that would justify the page.

Edited by Octoya on Nov 9th 2023 at 12:31:13 PM

I concur.

Fridge Horror is No Real Life Examples, Please! and because it's there for plot twists and realisations, I'm not sure it would be valid for a true-to-life dramatisation or documentary anyway.

Notifiers have already been sent to the creator.

One for the cut list?

Drunken Peasants is mostly real internet drama.

I just remembered, a while ago I made an Ask the Tropers query about how a lot of tropes on Fascinating Horror are about the real events themselves, rather than how the videos are presented. Anyone want to help me sort them out later? I just woke up.

On Jimmy Savile: A British Horror Story: Fridge, Nightmare Fuel and Tear Jerker subpages have now been cut. All three tropes are NRLEP.

More generally: Is it worth a pinned post on this thread, signposting some of the relevant policies and resources?

We have a separate "What is a tropeable work?" thread which has been used for some cut discussions. Links to things like that might be useful here?

Personally (mod hat firmly off) I see this thread as cleanup for the non-fiction stuff we're likely to keep - e.g. purging the NRLEP tropes - rather than as the best place to decide whether something's a tropeable work at all.

Good idea.

Anyway, here are the NRLEP tropes on Fascinating Horror that are used to describe real events:

• Drunk Driver
• My God, What Have I Done?
• No OSHA Compliance (which is also zero-context and general)
• Not Me This Time

These should probably go, but I'd like a second opinion first.

A page that I have concerns on: Swindled. Some tropes are describing aspects of the show's production and narration, but a lot of them are mostly directly about the various real-life situations the work covers.

I added a Broken Pedestal entry to the Jimmy Savile documentary since it's the entire point of the documentary.

...But Broken Pedestal is NRLEP and the entry is still about how real people felt about Jimmy. IDK if it's necessarily breaking the rules but it feels a bit too close for comfort.

That's assuming it's a valid example; idk if "person who became a universally hated figure" fits the mold of "character meets their idol and discovers they suck".

Sadly, there definitely were fans who met Savile and discovered who he really was. But, yeah, that's real life and we don't trope real events that way.

Even if it wasn't a NRLEP trope, that would fall foul of the bold text quoted in the pinned post.

I want to bring up Blackfish since I feel like the page is troping real-life events (the horrific abuse that orca Tilikum endured by Seaworld and the tragic death of Dawn Brancheau). What tropes should be removed?

I just removed Alternative Character Interpretation and Moral Event Horizon from the YMMV page as (as far as I'm aware) you can't use these to trope real life. Just looking at the main page. It doesn't strike me that there's many tropes that can be kept.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Nov 11th 2023 at 2:01:28 PM

Also, are we allowed to include Nightmare Fuel and Tear Jerker pages for documentaries? Looking over them, they only seem to include moments that happened in Real Life as well.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Nov 11th 2023 at 2:06:33 PM

Let's see... Corrupt Corporate Executive, Crapsaccharine World, Hellhole Prison, Karma Houdini Warranty, and Too Dumb to Live are all NRLEP; All Part of the Show and Deceased Fall-Guy Gambit have improper indentation. I've never seen Blackfish, though.

Posting that I have sent the Awesome, Nightmare Fuel and Tear Jerker pages to the cutlist. Should I also add a note on the top of the page about troping the documentary rather the events it covers?

I've cut a few more examples from Jimmy Savile: A British Horror Story, mostly NRLEP tropes and misuse. Might actually have a few tropes about the documentary (rather than RL) to add, too.

Checked on Blackfish and I saw the moments subpages were not cut, even though I sent them to the cutlist.