Real Time Strategy Master Thread

I can't seem to find any Real Time strategy or RTS threads on here, and this is despite that the Age of Empires series is doing well this year, and there is reportedly THREE!!! C&C successors coming out in the next year or two.

Now I know that people update the trope pages for various RTS's, but those people won't message me back.

So, is there an RTS you want to talk about? Are you more of an Age of Empires person or more one of a modern/WW 2 set RTS games person?]

I've played every single C&C game, all but Ao E 4 for Ao E, and I'm a big Act of War/Act of Aggression Fan. I also spent years being obsessed with Endwar. C&C Generals also has many, many fantastic mods. Same for C&C 3.

I hope I'm not completely alone on here about this. I don't have any RTS friends.

I’m sure the older members or mods can explain it better, but basically TV Tropes doesn’t allow “General X Threads” unless they were grandfather-claused in due to their age and overall activity. If you notice, probably the most broad threads are related to specific franchises, such as the Final Fantasy thread, Command & Conquer thread, Kingdom Hearts thread, etc. Otherwise it’ll probably get closed.

Still… I do like your idea, and you are correct that this particular year (and even 2024) looks like it’s gonna be pretty active for the RTS genre. Certainly couldn’t hurt to have a thread open to discussing any announcements or ideas for the genre overall.

For the sake of seeing if this thread might be viable... I'll try and add in something interesting. Notice how the earlier generation of RTS titles had a bunch of weird efforts at trying to expand their most popular games into different platforms?

Zade released a video discussing the various versions of Age of Empires II, including the Play Station 2 version, a barely-playable flip-phone version from 2005, and even a decent turn-based version for the Nintendo DS, which may as well been given a different name entirely. Could've sworn they had more releases of the PC version on the consoles, but I guess not.

Age of Empires wasn't the only RTS franchise to get some significantly altered takes on their most popular entries. The Command & Conquer franchise comes to mind with Command & Conquer 64, which brought the original Tiberian Dawn into a 3D environment while not changing the gameplay in any way, except for the lack of multiplayer. It ran like ass unfortunately (even with the N64 Expansion Pack), and detonating Nod's nuke in a crowed enemy base guaranteed the framerate would hit the lower single-digits for a good moment. Red Alert had C&C: Red Alert Retaliation for the Play Station 1, which was just the Aftermath expansion but ported to consoles. Multiplayer was actually possible with this one, provided you had the equipment for the system-link and two separate TV screens. And unlike C&C 64, it actually ran quite well, though you were limited to fighting against 3 A.I.s only in skirmish mode.

Westwood had another RTS that received a significant graphical overhaul when being ported to another system with Dune 2000. The PC version is 2D sprites/voxels, just like the older C&C games, whereas the Play Station got a 3D version of the game that again played exactly the same. I think the system-link was possible, too.

Even Blizzard tried this: Star Craft 64 was a thing (obviously on the Nintendo 64), and it included splitscreen multiplayer along with unique PVP and co-op scenarios. It included the Brood War campaign, but for some stupid reason you needed the N64 Expansion Pack to play those missions.

And now I'm wondering if any other popular RTS games have a similar history with odd or watered-down iterations. Probably not enough to get a proper Trope page up and running, but still interesting to explore nonetheless.

Endwar had to be completely changed and for the worse to be "ported" for the PSP. They made it into basically an Advance War clone and a bad one, not like Field Commander.

Honestly, I would enjoy more [genre] threads for games in general. Trying to keep open a specific thread about Ao E [insert number here] is a big pain, but RTS as a whole seems way more manageable (reminds me of how manga/anime can do seasonal threads and has a few genre ones going). Though we could do with a proper descriptive name in this case.

Anyhow, the fact RTS games keep trying to move into consoles has always been bizarre.

Some decent efforts have been made. Heck, I actually came to like Red Alert 3's PS 3 version and it's console controls, except for the stupidly limited unit cap - it made infantry spam or using garrisoned structures impractical. If anything, that's usually my true gripe with the console ports: they're almost always forced to compromise and remove features, lower the framerate and/or graphical quality, or reduce the amount of units or players allowed.

In fact, I'm kinda hoping Company of Heroes 3 on the consoles gains some popularity. I know it won't ever be as competitive or fast vs the PC keyboard/mouse players, but the mere idea of introducing new people into the genre and with the significantly more intuitive and easy to learn gamepad controllers just might be the ticket.

As far as I'm aware, Halo Wars started as console-exclusive.

Xbox 360 if I recall correctly.

Now, why Ao E 2 ever got a DS version...

Some recommendations that might've flown under the radar for US audiences:

• Cossacks: European Wars: if you're a 17th/18th century warfare enthusiast and find the idea of army sizes that put even Supreme Commander to shame intriguing, this game is for you. The original has some minor issues running on modern operating systems. Made by the same studio responsible for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. franchise, with the same level of attention and effort.
  • Available on Steam.
  • Many playable countries, many of which have at least one unique unit. Only a few have story campaigns and a map editor is added in the expansions, but there are historical battles and random map skirmish.
• Earth series: this was to European RTS gamers what the old C&C games were for the US, with Earth 2150 in particular strongly resembling Warzone 2100. Somewhat buggy and unpolished at times, but Earth 2150 has a small but active multiplayer community maintaining unofficial bugfix and balancing patches to this day. 2160 dropped some of 2150's features like the double-layered battlefield in favor of even more unit customization options and a fourth faction.
  • Available on Steam and GOG, but take note that the HD version of 2140 offered on both has no functioning enemy AI at all, only the GOG-exclusive DOS version does.
  • Two factions in 2140, three in 2150, four in 2160, with a total of 15 singleplayer campaigns across the entire franchise. Difficulty varies, with 2140 and 2150: Lost Souls approaching Nintendo Hard at times.
• Metal Fatigue: the shortest possible definition of this game is Humongous Mecha: The Video Game. If you like the idea of watching Animesque robots tear each other to pieces in melee combat on a multilayered battlefield with Supreme Commander-esque infinite resources, this is for you.
  • Available on Steam and GOG.
  • Three playable factions with one 10-mission campaign each. Available on Steam, but has some minor crashing issues on modern systems.
• Haegemonia: Legions of Iron: one of the grandfathers of Sins of a Solar Empire and Stellaris (the only older real-time entry in the genre that I know of is Imperium Galactica, made by the same developer). The graphics are surprisingly pretty for its age (released only three years after Homeworld), although the actual gameplay is a bit unpolished in the sense of being a race of "who gets to the biggest ships first". The base game has a fairly long story campaign but the expansion pack is sadly skirmish/multiplayer only.
  • Available on Steam.
• Outlive: a little-known Brazilian-made RTS with graphics comparable to Starcraft but with more fluid gameplay, introducing features like automatic assist/retreat and autocast on most unit abilities way ahead of the rest of the industry.
  • Sadly unavailable on digital distribution, as far as I know.

Steam Strategy Fest Sale for 2023 is ongoing until September 4th. It's a good chunk of anything remotely related to the strategy genre that's on sale, so this would be a great time to pick up anything strategy-related on your Steam Wishlist.

Is anyone interested in Global Conflagration (Been waiting 8 years for it to get as far as it has now)? What about the smaller and less famous game Red Chaos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxqp5SKNzo8

What about that Crossfire: Legion? I heard that was a dud and was bad, despite a marketing push?

@Sgt Ricko

I heard Ao E 2 DE is selling like hotcakes for consoles.

@amitakartok

As a child, I won a small championship for Metal Fatigue.

EDIT: Good news! The Global Conflagration demo is available!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/908770/Global_Conflagration/

Edited by WorkingOnBeingGood on Aug 30th 2023 at 5:41:42 AM

Crossfire: Legion was wasn’t my cup of tea, period.

It took most of its gameplay and design from Star Craft, added in the control points from Company of Heroes, added in Hero units, had you choose your units based upon a limited total of 6, and (initially) required you to unlock the unit roster. At least they got rid of that last bit thanks to the player base complaining about all of the balance issues it caused. The initial demo alone was enough to dissuade me entirely from wanting to play more.

As for Global Conflagration, that game’s demo really damaged its initial impression for me. Lots of glitches, including one that outright prevented me from winning a match (the enemy just kept rebuilding everything from the command center, no matter what I did), the gameplay clearly favors aggressive rush tactics, and a lot of the units felt too niche and situational, with anything being capable of speedy hit and run attacks being the obvious choice to mass-produce. Doesn’t seem like you can interact much with the map either.

Honestly, I don't really have any interest in classical-style RTSes after playing the ones that go more into the real-time tactics style so I don't really got much to say around here.

Did I have to post that then? Probably not, I just wanted to give my token support to this rather languid genre

I find it not fun when an RTS is too fast-paced. To give an example, Rise of Nations is fun, but I find that even on slowest & most expensive research, it's still too fast and the Commerce Limit mechanic is far too effective at keeping me from pulling ahead of the AI the way I could in Empire Earth.

Edited by amitakartok on Sep 1st 2023 at 4:50:32 PM

I think that being fast-paced is fine if the hotkeys are convenient. Starcraft II gets away with it because most of the hotkeys are placed on the right side of the keyboard. Red Alert 3 is also similar in that it's designed around unit abilities, and compensates for it by having one single key for every ability.

There's nothing wrong with that. EndWar is fun too.

Technically C&C4 and the other mobile C&C games are RTT, right?

I eagerly await the development of the Real-Time Logistics genre.

I don't mind speed if the scale is low. But the macro and micro demands of something like Starcraft...

I should go play Empire Earth again. I loved the "pick your civ bonuses" thing and nowadays I don't have to deal with its copy protection breaking autoplay.

The game you're looking for is called Factorio.

Edited by SgtRicko on Sep 1st 2023 at 7:32:25 PM

The only game with an economy that is fun, is likely Age of Empires 3. Red Alert 3 streamlined the economy to the point where it barely exists.

Do people prefer games with map control, or do you think that limits your ability to boom and turtle?

My preferences started to favor games that encourage map control, since it's a much better reflection of how actual military engagements occur. In turn, base-builders more closely resemble the sieges of castles or cities... which might be why Age of Empires was built the way it was.

Edited by SgtRicko on Sep 2nd 2023 at 2:47:23 AM

One of the things I dislike about Rise of Nations, is every single confrontation feels like WW 1 or WW 2.

"Boom and turtle" is fun when the braindead AI throws hundreds of units into the the meatgrinder (Total War), but in games that focus on PvP or Skirmish, then it becomes incredibly tedious with both sides turtling up.