The General Star Wars Thread

Poor Vader; every time he tries to talk things through, people refuse him.

His wife, his son, and now theose imagenary rebels, all prefer to die rahter than accept Vader's attempt at diplomacy.

Edited by jawal on Apr 30th 2024 at 2:48:59 PM

It highlights just how out of touch Anakin was. He really thought Padme — a huge believer in democracy — would be fine with ruling the galaxy as an Empress.

Hey I said it was funny. I didn't specify that it was dark humor.

But yeah, any Rebel knows that Vader will alter the deal to the point where it's nothing less than complete appeasement.... unless you are Boba Fett.

Still, you can't fault Vader for trying. Actually yes you can, but's funny anyway.

Edited by Patar136 on Apr 30th 2024 at 8:15:00 AM

The thing about the Dark Side, in the end, it's all about what ANAKIN wants, damn everyone else.

And really that's what ultimately saves him too. Because it turns out that Palpatine didn't account that Vader's selfishness could eventually turn on him. That Vader, when forced to choose between his son and Palpatine, could in fact do the former over the latter.

So in a very twisted sense, the dark side brought him to enlightenment. From this perspective, he sank so far into the dark it looped back around into recognizing what matters in life.

How's that for a story where the evil Empire gets beaten in by teddy bears?

Edited by Patar136 on Apr 30th 2024 at 8:39:23 AM

Anakin's whole mentality is legit pretty fascinating in ROTS. He seems to believe that any solution to ending the war ASAP would be justified simply by dint of, well, ending the war, and what's more that Padme would agree with this.

And had he talked and confided with literally anybody else BESIDES Palpatine, the whole war would have ended and everything would have turned out great. He would have won it all.

Instead, he lost it all.

That's what you get for dealing with the devil.

If he didn't confide with Palpatine he would not have known about the later being Darth Sidius, and as such, the war would not have ended.

Siduis still had the ace, which is Order 66, and could have still won; only he will need to find another apprentice (no, not the grand Inquisitor)

Anakins veiws on Democracy are pretty tinted because democracy has been put on a pedastal for him and he has watched that pedastal be broken continously. Democracy hasn't been shown to live up to what it was promised to be and the people have been showing themselves to be idiots with the same "F*** you, got mine" belief that has basically allowed the wounds that Palpatine has taken advantage of to fester. He has learned that democracy isn't for the people, democracy is for the rich and powerful.

It's been a while but I don't remember Anakin saying much about democracy in the first two and a half movies. And I also don't remember anyone talking to Anakin about democracy in those same movies.

Even at the end of the third movie, Anakin doesn't really say that much about democracy leading to plutocracy or being ineffective for the common person. He says a bunch of stuff about wanting to impose his will on the galaxy and saving Padme.

If I remember correctly, Padme is the one who brings up democracy and who has the line about democracy, but that is more about how Palpatine is manipulating everyone for his own gain which is only tangentially related to talking about democracy as a philosophy

Edited by Freshwater on May 1st 2024 at 7:38:03 AM

Anakin even talks about his political views in Episode 2. He's critical of the current Republican system and straight up says "If people don't agree with a decision they should be made to agree."

According to Anakin, not by him, but by somebody. Someone wise.

They probably refere to this dialogue from ATOC

Anakin: I don’t think the system works.

Padme: How would you have it work?

Anakin: We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem, agree what’s in the best interest of all the people and then do it.

Padme: That’s exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don’t always agree.

Anakin: Well then they should be made to.

Padme: By whom? Who is going to make them?

Anakin: I don’t know, someone.

Padme: You?

Anakin: Of course not me.

Padme: But someone.

Anakin Someone wise

Padme: It sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me.

Anakin: Well, if it works…

.............

This sound like a child talking to his mother, and not a serious political discussion.

Edited by jawal on May 1st 2024 at 3:52:05 PM

Huh, I forgot about that scene.

It does seem like Anakin never really liked or understood democracy or politics in general.

On the flipside, it does sound like something a budding fascist would say. Anakin really was raising red flags like they were going out of style during the 2nd and 3rd movies.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

It really does sound like Anakin is a child learning about politics for the first time.

Edited by Freshwater on May 1st 2024 at 7:56:44 AM

Kid Anakin from TPM was such a nice kid.

It is a shame how he was portrayed in AOTC.

Oh well, he is a teenager after all.

Edited by jawal on May 1st 2024 at 4:15:30 PM

Technically he's 20. Nine years old in TPM, then AOTC is ten years and change afterward.

Oops.

IIRC there was an arc in The Clone Wars where Anakin and Tarkin bond a little over disliking the senate and how they’re better.

Anakin (at least in TCW, it comes-through less in the movies), is the Military Maverick who flaunts authority because he knows how to get things done. Which sort of leads to the mindset that he’s the strong man who can solve everything if everyone just listened to him and the politicians and beauracrats just got out of his way.

Or at least I think that’s what they were going for with his character arc.

Edited by CheapMarzipan on May 1st 2024 at 11:31:46 AM

That was an episode, and there was also the bit about how Tarkin and Anakin got along because they felt the Jedi were too limited by their rules to do what had to be done in a war.

They even shook hands at the end with the imperial march playing.

Subtle.

Jedi are supposed to be diplomats, so it is kind of strange for Anakin to have bad understanding of politics.

Anakin kinda got fasttracked into becoming a Jedi and they try to keep out of politics with their own grievances even as they try to keep things working.

He did join the order later than he was supposed to. His opinion of politics might also have been influenced by the events of TPM. In TPM Anakin is shown an example of how debating in politics has hindered the solving of a problem, and that decisive action from the jedi and a badass queen had dealt with it. Unfortunately, the galaxy doesn't work like that all of the time, and his refusal to get out of that TPM mindset leads to him embracing fascism.

Edited by king15 on May 1st 2024 at 4:52:09 PM

It's a toss up. How diplomatic the Jedi could be depended mostly on the mission they were on, and while they were able to be very diplomatic in the past by the time of the prequels the Republic was so corrupt that most of the "diplomatic missions" we see Jedi go on were mostly to the tune of showing up and forcing parties to make a settlement.

If Anakin had to do a lot of that, I could see him ultimately concluding that the diplomacy part doesn't work, and that the forcing people to do the right thing part is all that matters.

Edited by KnownUnknown on May 1st 2024 at 9:54:20 AM

@king15 Even if the fast tracking, I would expect him to know something.

@Blue Face They may keep out of politics in the sense of not seeking political influence for themselves, but as diplomats they are involved in political events.

Considering how multifaceted the Jedi are, Anakin could have been one of those Jedi students who got A+ on his combat training and mechanical knowledge, but F- on his politics and diplomacy classes.